***4 month old puppy as a new member***

[Moflip78]

I might be bringing a 4 mo old dane puppy into our home as a new member of the family. I live with my GF and a 2 yo neutered boxer (Manny) both are friendly to humans and dogs lol

Haven't met the puppy yet but anything I should be worried about when adding a new pup into our home? Especially a 4 mo old? Hope it doesn't change our boxer's temperament.

The puppy has been with his litter mates since birth and i believe they're inside the house.

[Carolyn]

A 4 month old puppy still with their littermates would concern me a bit. Im hoping that doesnt mean theyve been kept together the whole time? They should have been separated for feedings, sleeping and taken out for different outings by themselves.

IME, pups left together after 10 weeks of age, tend to start fighting for food, attention and just playing too rough.......which sets them up for bad behaviors such as food aggression, dominating, possessive tendencies or on the other hand for those weaker pups, they can easily turn extremely submissive and shy.

I dont know how this litter was raised and how much supervision went on, but those are the things I would be looking at as far as the pup.

As for the parents of the litter, I would be sure to see ALL health testing done on BOTH parents. OFA hips, hearts, eyes and thyroid. You want to make sure you arent going to be dealing with entropian, cherry eye, immune issues, hip dysplasia and other such expensive problems once you get the pup home.
I would also meet the parents to see about their temperaments.

By 4 months old, the critical period of 8 to 12 weeks when the owners are suppose to be exposing the pup to new experiences is gone, so I would make sure that the breeder did get the pups out and socialized individually so you arent ending up with a socially inept pup that could need the help of a professional to overcome fear/shy/timid behavior.

And your breeder should be giving you a contract/guarantee.
HTH!
Let us know!
Carolyn

[Greenmagick]

I got Ivy at 4 months and it was wonderful! She was with a couple of her littermates still, but also had alone time. The breeder had done socialization, some basic training, taken her to agility classes with the older dogs, etc. She came home and was the easiest puppy I have had by far.

[Moflip78]

A 4 month old puppy still with their littermates would concern me a bit. Im hoping that doesnt mean theyve been kept together the whole time? They should have been separated for feedings, sleeping and taken out for different outings by themselves.

IME, pups left together after 10 weeks of age, tend to start fighting for food, attention and just playing too rough.......which sets them up for bad behaviors such as food aggression, dominating, possessive tendencies or on the other hand for those weaker pups, they can easily turn extremely submissive and shy.

I dont know how this litter was raised and how much supervision went on, but those are the things I would be looking at as far as the pup.

As for the parents of the litter, I would be sure to see ALL health testing done on BOTH parents. OFA hips, hearts, eyes and thyroid. You want to make sure you arent going to be dealing with entropian, cherry eye, immune issues, hip dysplasia and other such expensive problems once you get the pup home.
I would also meet the parents to see about their temperaments.

By 4 months old, the critical period of 8 to 12 weeks when the owners are suppose to be exposing the pup to new experiences is gone, so I would make sure that the breeder did get the pups out and socialized individually so you arent ending up with a socially inept pup that could need the help of a professional to overcome fear/shy/timid behavior.

And your breeder should be giving you a contract/guarantee.
HTH!
Let us know!
Carolyn

im pretty sure the breeder will try to say all the right things when asked about how puppy is raised, but how can i tell when i go there tomorrow if the pups aren't well socialized?

[Carolyn]

What about health testing of the parents..........have you asked about that and have been emailed proof???
Euro Danes are known for bad eyes, and weak rears.
I would NOT consider this pup unless there was health certs minimal for eyes and hips.

As for looking over the pups, you need to take the one/s you interested in away from the litter, over to your car, or away in your car and see how they react with you away from their litter (security blanket) and the breeders.

[Moflip78]

so we went to this place early today...she is a BYB ...2 blue moms had babies 3wks apart...there were 14 puppies left between 2 litters...4 months and 3 months...

my GF and I went just to give her the benefit of the doubt because she seemed very friendly over the phone...and sooo passionate about her dogs.

to make the long story short, my GF and I drove home with one of the puppies (4 months old) ...we're considering it as if we're rescuing one.

the puppy isn't well socialized, i dont think any of them are...puppy lets us pet him at times but when we tried to approach him, he walked away each time...they seemed to be all that way...we took him because he wasn't barking much. and he just had that look in his face so we brought him home.

now he's home, can anyone tell me how to introduce the two dogs properly? Manny (boxer) is very friendly but hyper...the pup (4 months) was shivering at first when he got inside the house but not anymore, and when they first met, manny ran to the pup but pup started barking or growling showing teeth etc trying to bite the boxer. i thought it was gona be a fight...they are now in their own crates, puppy seem to be shy and still walks away from us when approached, big trouble???

is it normal to see them go at it for a few secs? manny doesnt really fight, he just kneels down or punches pup in the face, but super active. but pup, he snaps at manny when manny tries to get near his face.

i started throwing keebles on the floor, they got distracted i guess, they did well with that, even crossing in front of each other or bumping into each other etc. no incident.

how do i earn trust of the puppy?

[WendyVA]

I have nothing to add that can help with your new situation,
you were told this situation probably would be trouble an now you have it.
You have a Long road ahead of you, so sorry,
maybe someone here will chime in to help you out again...

[DaneFolly]

I already replied to your other thread. Double postings like this can get kind of confusing; in the future you may want to limit your question to just one thread, so that we all know what responses others have given and we're not repeating ourselves or confusing you or eachother. The mods are really helpful if you decide you want to move something later.

[angeldane]

I hope you got the pup next to free, because you can't rescue a pup if you paid them for it, you said they had 14 left so others must have seen they were not good breeders, maybe they would have turned them all into rescue had they contined not to sell. I would have left the pup there unless of course they just gave it away.
If can be very difficult to raise a pup who is undersocialized. I would now work on driving him around in the car as well as having friends over to just be near him so he learns the world is a bigger place. Maybe in 3 weeks you can start hanging out in public places just sitting and letting him get to see everything.
Best way to introduce two dogs is to be in a fenced area and your old dog on a leash new dog loose. The new dog is loose so he can control how much he wants to be invovled and so he can look around. At four months a pup should take to another dog right away. Also depends on your other dog and what sex they both are.
Overall the pup must have been raised in partial isolation away from humans and only given food and water, meaning he may be slightly feral because no one paid attention to these pups.
Best way to earn his trust is to hand feed him and have others do the same he will break out his shell as he is still young but you may aways have issues with him meeting new people.

[DaneFolly]

Best way to introduce two dogs is to be in a fenced area and your old dog on a leash new dog loose. The new dog is loose so he can control how much he wants to be invovled and so he can look around.

I've been told that both dogs should either be leashed or unleashed, not one of each, because being leashed when the other dog is not can lead to the leashed dog feeling trapped/forced to interact with the other dog, and he knows he can't get away should the other dog become aggressive, which leads to an insecure and possibly more volatile situation. Just wondering if you could elaborate on this peice of advice a little more, or to hear other perspectives on it.

[angeldane]

I've been told that both dogs should either be leashed or unleashed, not one of each, because being leashed when the other dog is not can lead to the leashed dog feeling trapped/forced to interact with the other dog, and he knows he can't get away should the other dog become aggressive, which leads to an insecure and possibly more volatile situation. Just wondering if you could elaborate on this peice of advice a little more, or to hear other perspectives on it.

since the one pup already has issues it would be bad to have him leashed. Leashing a dog who is the new one will greatly limit his ablity to choose how close he wants to be with the other dog and will limit him on where he wishes to sniff. Remember the pup in question already has issues, leashes typically make a dog who is afraid much worse or even aggressive, leash aggression is very common in fearful dogs. The pup is only 4 months old and has not shown signs of being dog aggressive, just afraid, so it's much better to have the boxer who is normal acting on a leash. So the pup can feel he is free to check out the boxer or walk away without feeling traped on a leash.
When introducing two adults or dogs with unknown temperaments, having both loose leashed is a good idea, but to me introducing a puppy to an adult you should leave pup loose, unless of course there is a chance the adult will bite.
I should also say since the pup already backs away in fear of new people it would make him worse to be stuck on a leash were he could not get away.

[Carolyn]

Im not quite sure why you posted for help in the first place since you thumbed your nose at all the advice and did what you wanted anyway.
We told you the risks you would face for an unsocialized pup, and from your description, you got the hieght of problems.

Buying a pup from a byber is NOT rescuing a pup..........its perpetuating the problem. Angeldane hit the nail on the head:

**** you said they had 14 left so others must have seen they were not good breeders, maybe they would have turned them all into rescue had they contined not to sell. I would have left the pup there unless of course they just gave it away.*****


Also I can tell from how you already tried to introduce the dogs you have ZERO knowledge on how to properly intigrate a new pup into an a home that already has a dog, let alone a pup with a HUGE lack of social skills. You have set this pup that already has neurotic problems to make them worse.

First off, this pup shows to have detachment syndrome, meaning he was not nutured by human touch as a pup and now touch makes him very uncomfortable.
Second, he doesnt know how to relate to other dogs, even though YOU feel your Boxer is being friendly and engaging the pup to play, THIS PUP DOESNT KNOW WHAT THAT IS, SO HE IS VIEWING IT AS THREATENING AND TAKING THE FIGHT STANCE. VERY, VERY BAD SITUATION!

THIRD: Now you can spend some real money and hire a behaviorist to come and work with you and your GF on how to work with this pup to help get him over some of this neurotic behavior and try to make him somewhat comfortable in his own skin.

Poor, poor pup

[DaneFolly]

When introducing two adults or dogs with unknown temperaments, having both loose leashed is a good idea, but to me introducing a puppy to an adult you should leave pup loose, unless of course there is a chance the adult will bite.
I should also say since the pup already backs away in fear of new people it would make him worse to be stuck on a leash were he could not get away.

So what I'm hearing is that you would only recommend this leashed/unleashed set up for this specific scenario, is that correct? That makes sense to me; originally it sounded to me as though you were applying it to all new dog situations. Thanks for clarifying.

[Carolyn]

Its pretty obvious from the OP's posts there is a lack of basic common knowledge in dealing with dogs. Just because the Boxer is acting friendly and trying to engage the pup in play, its clear the pup is NO WHERE ready for any of that and to not give the pup at least a couple days to get used to his new home before putting into the situation of an energetic, over the top Boxer is just a huge, huge problem.

The dogs need to be separated, and the pup needs to be given TIME to learn who his new owners are, what is expected of him and just a basic routine (when feeding time is, potty time, outside time, bedtime, nap time, etc, etc). Things that are taken for granted before can not be taken granted for now. This pup knows none of that and must be carefully shown these things without the distraction and confusion of a hyper Boxer. Does your Boxer have ANY manners? Obedience training? Does he know BASIC commands?

Im guessing that since its clear none of ANY of our other advice was taken why to bother with more advice now since this is going to be even HARDER advice to follow.

If this is not handled properly, both dogs will suffer life altering consequences.......including dog aggression, injuries and alienation.

EDIT TO ADD:
IF THE OP CAN FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS ABOVE after I saw that the pup was having some comfort level in accepting his new home, introduction to the Boxer would be made WITH THE BOXER ON A LEASH AND THE PUP LOOSE SO HE COULD GET AWAY IF HE WANTED. THE BOXER MUST STAY ON THE LEASH UNTIL THE PUP TOOK THE INITIATIVE TO APPROACH THE BOXER. AT NO TIME SHOULD THE BOXER BE THE INITIATOR TO THE GREET. THE BOXER MUST STAY ON THE LEASH AT ALL TIMES WHILE IN THE HOUSE WITH THE PUP UNTIL THE PUP STARTS TO FEEL COMFORTABLE. THAT MAY TAKE DAYS................

[katie1254]

To the OP. I did the same thing you did when I got my first dane. Boy was the the biggest mistake I have ever made. I had the same mindset as you, "I cant leave this poor puppy in the atmosphere any longer". I should have walked away but i didnt. That is how I got my Diesel. He has had so many health and behavioural issues that I could not even begin to list all of them. You have a very very tough road ahead of you. I hope that you now start taking the advise given. It took me over 3 years to find a trainer that would even work with our issues (no agression thankfully). I have been working with that trainer for over 2 years now and we have made great strides with him but he will never be the dog that I wished he would be. Please know that you will have to work everyday very consistantly with this pup. You need to find a qualified trainer NOW! You are going to spend lots of money on this pup when it comes to training and all the medical issues that are most likely going to pop up. I really hope that you have a good savings in place because you are going to need it. This is not going to be a walk in the park. This is not going to be you thought it was before you braught home this puppy. Sometimes it can be done an sometimes it ends in tragidy. Just read through the other post of people that have had to put their poor dogs to sleep after years of trying to fix what the breeder has done. They did everything possible to fix the problems that have been caused by the byb only to end in hearache. And the byb doesnt care they are going to continue to breed and by you "saving" that puppy you have just incouraged them to breed more. I am not saying all of this to be mean or to "attack" you. I am being realistic, I have been there and done this. So please know what you are in for.