Hi all,
I'll just kind of jump right in. I'm really looking for theories and treatment ideas out of this post. And before I get into it, we have had many, many xrays done as well as a CT scan, and cancer does not seem to be the cause (in fact, nothing is showing up on xrays either).
My 9 year old Great Dane developed a spontaneous pneumothorax a few months ago and we are still fighting it. She has gone through many thoracocentesis procedures during that time (too many to count actually). I know a lot of people would not want to put their pet through this, but she does really well during the procedure and responds really well after. On top of the thoracocentesis, we have used a chest tube (which I will get into more a little later) and, most recently, had a pleurodesis procedure performed. However, none have completely remedied the issue.
My vet all along the way has been very skeptical about her ability to recover. He feels that there are numerous bullae that keep rupturing. I really don't believe he gave her much of a chance at first. But after removing air from her chest several times, he got to see how well she bounces back and just how normal she is. So, he's starting to come around to my crazy ideas and treatment questions. But, after about 3 months, we are running out of options. Still, I'm not giving up yet...
About a month, maybe 5 weeks ago, we went the chest tube route. They stopped getting air out after the first day on the tube and only pulled air out for a few seconds after she was off the suction for 5-10 minutes for a walk. By the 3rd day, they didn't notice any air. An interesting thing happened after the tube was removed. She actually kept leaking air, but the air made its way out of the tunnel caused by the tube (after it was removed) and terminated under her skin. From there, it was easily removed by inserting a needle into her skin and gently squeezing it out (I could manage this from home). This went on for a couple of weeks and the leaking appeared to stop or at least significantly slowed to a trickle. The air stopped filling up under her skin and her breathing was, for the most part, normal. However, she also has rhinitis (a scope, biopsy and a separate CT scan did not show cancer there either), so after a long bout of reverse sneezing, her pneumothorax returned.
I have inquired about inserting a tube, or whatever else, to emulate that opening allowing the air to leak out and settle under her skin. My idea was a low profile tube with a one way valve that flared at the end so it could be sutured under the skin. After a couple weeks of my vet asking around to human and animal doctors, nothing has been found. As far as he can tell, it's nothing that's been done before.
Now, we are at the point of inserting a permanent chest tube so her condition can be managed from home. He normally would not do anything like this (and would not have even given it a second though when we first came to him), but again, he sees how normal she is with the air removed, and how she's really beat all odds so far, so he's coming around. We're both well aware of the chance of infection, but options are getting thin. Out of the options that are left, this is probably the best as crazy as it seems.
Apparently, chest tubes are run toward the back of the dog. I don't know how feasible this is, but I've inquired about running it forward and under her skin so it terminates around her neck. I figure if it runs back, she's more likely to roll over on it and move it around too much. This would also put it in a position where she could not turn around and bite at it. The vet is going to talk to the surgeon and see if it can be done. He said it running under her skin for a length would actually lessen the chance for infection because bacteria would move very slowly up the tube.
Surgery is going to be the very last option since nothing is showing up on scans. We would likely say our goodbyes before hand because if it is numerous ruptures that can't be healed, I don't want her going through the recovery from that and still have to constantly go through some sort of air removal. Out of all my crazy theories, that's where I'll draw the line.
Anyway, out of this long rant, I'm hoping to find if there are more ideas or treatment options I can try including anything herbal that might help heal her lungs (we've been using yunnan baiyao for her nosebleeds and that seems to work great so I'll keep an open mind). I'm also interested in hearing if anyone has had a similar experience and what you tried that did or didn't work.
Thanks for reading
I'll just kind of jump right in. I'm really looking for theories and treatment ideas out of this post. And before I get into it, we have had many, many xrays done as well as a CT scan, and cancer does not seem to be the cause (in fact, nothing is showing up on xrays either).
My 9 year old Great Dane developed a spontaneous pneumothorax a few months ago and we are still fighting it. She has gone through many thoracocentesis procedures during that time (too many to count actually). I know a lot of people would not want to put their pet through this, but she does really well during the procedure and responds really well after. On top of the thoracocentesis, we have used a chest tube (which I will get into more a little later) and, most recently, had a pleurodesis procedure performed. However, none have completely remedied the issue.
My vet all along the way has been very skeptical about her ability to recover. He feels that there are numerous bullae that keep rupturing. I really don't believe he gave her much of a chance at first. But after removing air from her chest several times, he got to see how well she bounces back and just how normal she is. So, he's starting to come around to my crazy ideas and treatment questions. But, after about 3 months, we are running out of options. Still, I'm not giving up yet...
About a month, maybe 5 weeks ago, we went the chest tube route. They stopped getting air out after the first day on the tube and only pulled air out for a few seconds after she was off the suction for 5-10 minutes for a walk. By the 3rd day, they didn't notice any air. An interesting thing happened after the tube was removed. She actually kept leaking air, but the air made its way out of the tunnel caused by the tube (after it was removed) and terminated under her skin. From there, it was easily removed by inserting a needle into her skin and gently squeezing it out (I could manage this from home). This went on for a couple of weeks and the leaking appeared to stop or at least significantly slowed to a trickle. The air stopped filling up under her skin and her breathing was, for the most part, normal. However, she also has rhinitis (a scope, biopsy and a separate CT scan did not show cancer there either), so after a long bout of reverse sneezing, her pneumothorax returned.
I have inquired about inserting a tube, or whatever else, to emulate that opening allowing the air to leak out and settle under her skin. My idea was a low profile tube with a one way valve that flared at the end so it could be sutured under the skin. After a couple weeks of my vet asking around to human and animal doctors, nothing has been found. As far as he can tell, it's nothing that's been done before.
Now, we are at the point of inserting a permanent chest tube so her condition can be managed from home. He normally would not do anything like this (and would not have even given it a second though when we first came to him), but again, he sees how normal she is with the air removed, and how she's really beat all odds so far, so he's coming around. We're both well aware of the chance of infection, but options are getting thin. Out of the options that are left, this is probably the best as crazy as it seems.
Apparently, chest tubes are run toward the back of the dog. I don't know how feasible this is, but I've inquired about running it forward and under her skin so it terminates around her neck. I figure if it runs back, she's more likely to roll over on it and move it around too much. This would also put it in a position where she could not turn around and bite at it. The vet is going to talk to the surgeon and see if it can be done. He said it running under her skin for a length would actually lessen the chance for infection because bacteria would move very slowly up the tube.
Surgery is going to be the very last option since nothing is showing up on scans. We would likely say our goodbyes before hand because if it is numerous ruptures that can't be healed, I don't want her going through the recovery from that and still have to constantly go through some sort of air removal. Out of all my crazy theories, that's where I'll draw the line.
Anyway, out of this long rant, I'm hoping to find if there are more ideas or treatment options I can try including anything herbal that might help heal her lungs (we've been using yunnan baiyao for her nosebleeds and that seems to work great so I'll keep an open mind). I'm also interested in hearing if anyone has had a similar experience and what you tried that did or didn't work.
Thanks for reading
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