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  • #31
    To the OP,
    I mean NO disrespect. I am sure that reading all these differing opinions could be un-nerving as well as make one defensive. Just try to read it for what it is. Try to wrap your mind around the fact that there are people out there with more experience than you, willing to share their experiences. Please don't have the "I know" mentality. PLEASE if you really are going to breed danes, do it the right way.

    This puppy definitely has issues. He should NOT be bred. You don't have to be a vet to see it. Wanna see what he's gonna look like when he gets older?

    I see the same low croup...

    Originally posted by angeldane View Post
    I have heard of pups with severe HD at 6 months typically they have to be put down
    This is true, I had one. He was 7 months when we euth'd, and HD was NOT his only problem. Our vet at the time said, when you are dealing with bad genes, it usually isn't just one thing that ails them.

    Originally posted by renegadedanes View Post
    I think I will have him fixed before taking him back so that she couldnt sell him as a "breed quality" dog to someone else.
    If you DO end up taking this pup back, this is a very good idea. She probably won't think to look until you're gone, and he won't ever be able to carry on his bad genes.

    Originally posted by Harlequin Dane View Post
    Looking beyond the present, I really want to recommend you put any breeding goals on hold for awhile. Take time to learn about how to find a responsible breeder, genetics, the breed, and really look into joining a club. Even if you can't show this guy, you can learn a lot with him and about showing so that when you do get a show potential pup, you will be that much further ahead of the game.

    Breeding is an enormous responsibility, and harls have plenty of issues. Take your time, get involved in the breed, and I definitely recommend getting a mentor (more than one can be nice, too). I guarantee if you do those things and stick around DOL, you will look back a year from now and go "WOW" I'd like to reiterate a recent thread where Moni said "you have a right to breed your dog, but you have a responsibility not to".
    This is *really* good advice. I hope you take it. If you love Great Danes, not just your own sweet pets, but the breed as a whole, you will take great concern with what you are contributing. In a world where we euthanize a dog EVERY 6 SECONDS(and ONE in FOUR shelter dogs is purebred), we cannot afford to breed mediorcrity. I'll say it again, YES, you have the right to breed your dog, but you have a responsibility NOT to.

    Originally posted by renegadedanes View Post
    I never bred one of my merles and I planned on breeding the other to a black if I did breed her because of the light harl pup. If I dont spay her but shes a great dog, temperment and body. That was the first time I had bred her. I am not horrible for breeding a merle and I would do the right thing if there was a problem with ANY of the puppies. The only thing I did wrong was breed to a harl, but I learned and if I did breed her again would breed to a black. If she was bred to a black it would cancel the "white" gene. I still even have the runt of the litter because he is small and I wanted to be sure hes 100% ready when he going home since its a 9 hour trip. Just because I bred a merle which isnt color ethical doesnt mean I am a bad person. There are many merles being bred let alone harls to fawns and such and none of that means someone is bad. I have done lots of research since. Thats not why Im on here, I just needed help with this pup not lectured about something else that I would have asked on here about if I didnt already learn.

    There is nothing wrong with this pup because he is from blue to harl breeding!!! I have no clue why you would think that...

    Everyone started somewhere and made mistakes with their breeding somehow, nobodies perfect.
    Ok, this paragraph alone REALLY means that you need to do some more research. With regard to what I bolded and underlined:
    No, it might not make you a bad person, but it does make you an irresponsible person. It is also VERY bad for the breed, as a whole. You have to think outside yourself. You can't be selfish. Going back to 1 dog every 6 seconds, WHY ON EARTH would someone breed merles? Just to make more puppies? Why would you want to be one of those breeders? Seems like someone who truly loves the breed would have only the best interests in mind, and not just "doing right by the puppies", it means making decisions based on what is right, what is responsible, not what is convienent. It's about the greater good.

    Originally posted by Carolyn View Post
    Im reading all this and for the life of me am totally dumbfounded that you have gone back to this breeder for another pup? This time to buy a "stud" dog? WTH?

    Im reading all these threads about people spending all this money to buy these sick pups and then spend hundreds to a couple thousand dollars fixing them.......are you kidding?

    You bought this pup already knowing he was totally infested with worms, but figured that was an easy fix? How about buying from a breeder where the pups are healthy, happy and you dont have to worry about "fixing" anything or worry if the breeder actually did what they said they would do, like vaccinate?

    The amount of time, energy, money and mental anguish that you buyers spend hashing over all these puppy problems has totally blown my mind! I bet you spent more money for this sick pup then most reputable breeders sell their dogs for.

    I will say though, that no reputable breeder is going to sell a buyer a "stud" prospect to set themselves up as a backyard breeder, so if that really was your motive, about the only breeders willing to do that are other bybers.
    BRAVO! This whole post
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    • #32
      I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, I'm not trying to be mean, but you need to hear the truth. From what I saw on your website... This boy should have been placed as a pet on LMT AKC Reg with a neuter contract. His parents also. All of them have way to many CONFORMATION Faults. They shouldn't have been bred together in the first place. We don't breed Harls & Blues together. http://www.gdca.org/colorcode.htm

      I hope you are learning that your breeder/mentor is not reputable or responsible. We also don't breed merles unless they come from a long line of champions and are exceptional. Plus being bred by someone who knows color genetics inside & out. You should really spay/neuter everything for future puppies sake, because it doesn't look like they have come from good stock since you really didn't know any better.

      This is what stud dogs should look like (After they have been showing to their AKC championship & OFA health tested)

      http://greatdanereview.com/html/stud_gallery.html
      http://www.thegreatdanegallery.com/studs.html
      http://www.daneworld.com/DW-DP-StudDogs.htm

      Is Your Dog Breeding Quality?
      http://www.bouviers.net/shouldyoubreed/breed.pdf

      GREAT DANE STANDARD
      http://www.gdca.org/illustrated.htm

      The Great Dane Seminar
      http://judgesl.com/danes/daneABC.html

      Great Dane Conformation Clinic
      http://www.sunstrike-great-danes.com...mation-clinic/

      Great Dane Balance and Type
      http://www.showdogsupersite.com/btgdane.html

      Edit to add!! Actually only a small amount of merles have been bred by reputable responsible show breeders. These merles were truly outstanding! They also were evaluated by other breeders & breeder judges. The rest of the merles out there that are willy nilly bred are by backyard breeders! There is no reason to put more pet mismark puppies out there from these poorly bred pedigrees.
      Also fawn to harl was only done a couple of times to bring in better qualities to the harl line. It was done over 30 Years ago by one of the most outstanding harl breeders that knew color genitcs and how to breed danes. Her long line of champions was enough proof that she was doing it right. Also It's not done on a regular basis by reputable harl breeders today!

      JMHO
      Last edited by CADRMNDANES; 09-07-2010, 02:49 PM.

      Regards,
      Renee
      http://californiadreaminggreatdanes.com/

      "Being kind is much more important than being right. Sometimes, what a person needs is not a brilliant mind that speaks, but a patient heart that understands." ~Unknown

      Comment


      • #33
        I really hope you take the advice of the folks who have responded to your post and think long & hard before breeding more Danes. I know it's hard not to get defensive, but reputable breeders and folks who do rescue get pretty emotional about backyard breeders. Many of the truly great breeders have spent many years researching, showing, & learning so that the Danes they produce are of the best quality possible. Others (myself included) have spent years cleaning up after the BYBs. I've got 3 deaf Danes, one of which is also blind & has epilepsy. I also have a German Shepherd who was diagnosed with HD at 6 months old. She's had a hip replacement but now has degenerative myelopathy. I love Maggie more than life itself, but she has cost me a fortune over the years. All 4 were from BYBs and all 3 Danes had at least 1 merle parent. I don't mean to be a bi#@h but take a minute to look and see how many Danes are up for adoption on Petfinder. Do you really want to contribute to this?
        sigpicIs it dinnertime yet?

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        • #34
          Originally posted by renegadedanes View Post
          I never bred one of my merles and I planned on breeding the other to a black if I did breed her because of the light harl pup. If I dont spay her but shes a great dog, temperment and body. That was the first time I had bred her. I am not horrible for breeding a merle and I would do the right thing if there was a problem with ANY of the puppies. The only thing I did wrong was breed to a harl, but I learned and if I did breed her again would breed to a black. If she was bred to a black it would cancel the "white" gene.
          black does not cancel out a white gene, the breeding a merle to a harlequin gives an all white pup because the pup is a double merle and harlequin, since a harlequin is a merle dog with a white out gene, if you breed two merles you can get pups that most call merlequins which in some cases have a lot of white, but all whites typically come from harlequins breed back to harlequins or merles. Several well known breeders have and do breed merle mantles, double merles, and whites, but only to blacks or mantles from harlequin breeding, you have to color test the black dog to ensure the breeding is purposeful. So breeding your merle girl to a black may only yield black and merle pups. Because the black dog has to carry for harlequin. All this is very easy compared to actually breeding harlequins.

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          • #35
            There is a difference being helping and educating someone and being attacking, overbearing and just plain mean. I read some of the posts on here before posting and should have know how some people would respond so aggressively and not posted. I would bet my life that there are people out there who needed advice or help with something and read the post by some of these horrible people and changed their mind because they were afraid of being attacked! Its seems that there are several people who are on here just to act like they are perfect and make other people feel badly. Well sorry it didnt work... Shame on you. I sure wont be using this forum anymore which is sad because Im sure I could have learned alot from some of the nice, helpful people on here.

            maggiemay98, angeldane, CADRMNDANES, WeLoveOur7Dogs, Lacey, crdane, ouesi and a few other I may have missed since there were so many replies.

            Thank you for your kind words of advice. I heard back from the breeder and she is taking him back and we are getting a replacement puppy. I just hope he doesnt suffer. Not the best outcome but hopefully all will end well. Thank you again.

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            • #36
              That is good that the breeder is taking him back but, my question is why would you want another puppy from this lady, with the same genetics and poor breeding practices would it not be better for you to give the puppy back and get a refund? Some things that I say may be harsh but I am not going to sugar coat it for anyone. Sorry that I may have offended you but I only spoke the truth, sometimes it may not be what people want to hear though but it does have to come out. Hopefully you stick around and learn something.
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              • #37
                You just made it painfully obvious you cannot learn from the excellent advise given to you.

                You are in the wrong, what you are doing breeding those poor representations of the breed that will more then likely throw health issues galore is WRONG and cruel. Trying to guilt trip anyone because they called you out on your poor decisions and tried to help you will not make any one of them feel guilty. Nor should it. It also will not detract from the glaringly obvious issue of you not making any attempt to breed responsibly or learning from your obvious mistake with your last puppy.
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                • #38
                  Those "horrible people" have the interest of the breed behind them and are tired of seeing it go down the crapper and dogs suffering because of bybs and ignorant buyers. Given this pups issues and appearance I cannot understand why you would choose to take another pup in replacement from the same breeder. Cut your losses and run far far away.

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                  • #39
                    <<I heard back from the breeder and she is taking him back and we are getting a replacement puppy.>>

                    As you stated earlier.........that is exactly what you didnt want!
                    So why are you settling for a replacement pup from this breeder which will again be from not health tested parents, with possibly the same problems and riddled with worms and go thru this anguish all over again? I dont understand.
                    Carolyn
                    Divine Acres Great Danes
                    Divine Acres The Legend "Bruce" 5 1/2 months old..5th generation of DA Danes!
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                    • #40
                      I understand that your emotions have probably totally taken over because you are going through a lot. I am confused by why you would want to take on another one of that particular breeder's dogs?

                      Your fawn was not properly immunized by her and I am assuming died of parvo. You are considering calling animal control on her because your puppy and another one you know are sick, possibly from laying in filth. But, then you are taking another puppy from her? What happens when that one has issues too? Are you planning on getting another stud dog, or just a pet? Have you seen her kennel in person? If you did, you might not want to get a pup from her. How many litters does the breeder have on the ground, that she can just give you a different pup? I am so afraid that you are about to set yourself up for more heartache.

                      I am assuming that you have to take another puppy or forfeit your money. You are in a horrible situation, but what happens when the new puppy gets sick and dies at 6 months old, or has terrible issues? How much money did you put out in vet expenses for the two pups that are now both failures from the same breeder? Please try to put your emotions aside and think hard about what you are going to do.

                      Good luck!
                      Chris, Wife to Dave, and Mom three human teenagers.
                      Also mom to Tori (11 yo Lab), , Ayla (2 yo brindle dane), Milo (2 yo boxer), Killian (4 week old iw pup who is still with his breeder and mommy) 3 kittens, 2 horses, multiple reptiles, 7 fainting goats, 25 chickens, and 2 pot bellied pigs, all of whom make life great!
                      RIP CARLIE 2/09-2/11 & REILLY 10/4/08-11/20/12, best friends together forever now.

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                      • #41
                        Plus why would you want to bring any more puppies from them to your property?? You are just bringing all of those parasites & diseases to your home. Some of those problems can be passed on to your other dogs.

                        Regards,
                        Renee
                        http://californiadreaminggreatdanes.com/

                        "Being kind is much more important than being right. Sometimes, what a person needs is not a brilliant mind that speaks, but a patient heart that understands." ~Unknown

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by crdane View Post
                          but what happens when the new puppy gets sick and dies at 6 months old, or has terrible issues? How much money did you put out in vet expenses for the two pups that are now both failures from the same breeder? Please try to put your emotions aside and think hard about what you are going to do.
                          This is EXACTLY what happened to me with my first dane "purchase". I got a puppy, albeit it wasn't for breeding purposes, but he was genetically a mess. We euthanized him at 7 months because of all his health issues.

                          I took a replacement puppy from the same breeder. He was out of different parents so my young, inexperienced and naive brain thought I'd be safe "this time"...Couldn't be more wrong. We euthanized Ripley too, not because he was physically sick, but because he had many, many issues mentally. He to was a mess.

                          PLEASE, OP I realize your defenses are up and you feel like everyone is getting down on you. I saw your website. I saw your "breeding dogs" and to be honest, you have a LONG way to go before you can say you have learned anything. I will say it again, if you truly LOVE Great Danes, you will get your pets spayed or neutered and quit trying to make money off the backs of your dogs. You are in it for yourself, NOT for the betterment of the breed.
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                          • #43
                            ok i know i had a nice reply earlier and i am still going to put this next post as nicely as i can. After seeing your site.


                            What in the heck made you ever think any of the dogs you have our worthy of being breed???? and then you show pics of their parents who look twice as bad when it comes to conformation. I mean even your new pups parents as soon as i saw them i was like YIKES! We all make mistakes i know that im not perfect either but man quit trying to make a quick buck and stop breeding.

                            I don't feel sorry for you and your situation now. After seeing your site and sitting here and listening to you go on about how wrong this is that your pup is ill and horribly messed up comformation wise is stupid!!! when your breeding dogs that our just as far off standard wise as your breeders dogs are. Really your doing the SAME EXACT thing that your breeder did to you with the puppies you sell. You are no better than the breeder who gave you that poor puppy. So i can't feel sorry for you anymore. Please spay and neuter your pets.
                            sigpic Little boy!

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Lacey View Post
                              ok i know i had a nice reply earlier and i am still going to put this next post as nicely as i can. After seeing your site.


                              What in the heck made you ever think any of the dogs you have our worthy of being breed???? and then you show pics of their parents who look twice as bad when it comes to conformation. I mean even your new pups parents as soon as i saw them i was like YIKES! We all make mistakes i know that im not perfect either but man quit trying to make a quick buck and stop breeding.

                              I don't feel sorry for you and your situation now. After seeing your site and sitting here and listening to you go on about how wrong this is that your pup is ill and horribly messed up comformation wise is stupid!!! when your breeding dogs that our just as far off standard wise as your breeders dogs are. Really your doing the SAME EXACT thing that your breeder did to you with the puppies you sell. You are no better than the breeder who gave you that poor puppy. So i can't feel sorry for you anymore. Please spay and neuter your pets.


                              Bears repeating!

                              OP...if your heart is in showing/breeding, then cease contact with your current breeder. Return Thunder and cut your losses, spay and neuter your dogs, and take down your website. It's time to go straight back to basics, like it or not. Go to shows (2010 Specialty is in Alabama this coming October) and find a reputable breeder who will mentor you. In 10-15 years from now, you might be ready to try again. But chances are by then, with all your experience and knowledge, you won't want to.
                              Katie & Scarlett
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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Meatos View Post
                                (2010 Specialty is in Alabama this coming October) .
                                Actually it's in Arkansas.
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