American versus European.

[_Crystal_]

RE: American versus European.

No, I don't have a deer hound. lol I only have a Weimaraner and a Dane. My husband's co-worker, who he hunts with every year or so has the staghound/Dane/Pitt cross that he uses for hog hunting.

[gsxrsean]

RE: American versus European.

>>>You need to do some research about europe danes!
I know danes from Roemenian and hongarian lines which go to australian for the boarhunt,they also use them in hongaria.
So don't say they can't take down a boar,the proper europe ones can!
And the german breeder has right about the US danes.<<<


What I find funny is that even the pictures of Danes you posted suposedly hunting the boar. Are NOT heavy mastiff like Danes.

Here is a picture of a German Dane 80+ years ago (born 1924)...

http://www.geocities.com/tarosean/DolfVdSaalburg.jpg

Now tell me which style it resembles American or the Mastiff like ones claiming to be "Euro"?

[_Crystal_]

RE: American versus European.

Wonderful post Sean!!!!!! :e) :e) :e) :e) :e)

I do find it interesting that several countries have strayed so far from the original look of the Great Dane...and yet claim our dogs here in America look nothing like Great Danes. :f Either way...to each his own I guess..everyone has their own preferances, but personally if I wanted a dog that looked like a leggy mastiff I would just go get a mastiff. :7

[Royal Sooner Danes]

RE: American versus European.

Excellent visual, Sean!!!

Do you happen to have the name of the dog in the picture??? Love, Great Dane history.



Okie regards......
from the Sooner State, Brenda
Royal Sooner Great Danes & Borzoi
http://www.royalsoonerdanes.com

[mp]

RE: American versus European.

Is that Dolf? (don't have my contacts in, so maybe a daughter!) My other guesses would be Loheland or Birkenhoff.

The earlier Dane books speak of the Danes of Northern Germany as being very heavy and those of the southern part of the country, which includes Ulm, as being more elegant.

mp

[mp]

RE: American versus European.

Thanks! Would love to see more pictures! So it's not just in the rural American south that there a pickup trucks with dogs n the back!

Those dogs look they indeed have an active job to do. By comparison, both the heavy Euro type and the American type look very stylized -- each in their own way.

Does anyone remember the post a few months ago by a German woman who had blacks that were more to the American style? She wrote of the difficulties of showing the more elegant dog.

We just don't have enough hard evidence about the look and size of the European dogs that hunted boars in the 17th and 18th centuries.

We also don't know enough about the boars. I remember reading somewhere years ago that the last wild boar in western Europe was killed in the last quarter of the 18th century. (Don't know who was keeping count, though.) Is the Russian boar a descendant of the fierce boar of western Europe? Dunno. I do know that they are prized as game animals.

For example, the January issue of the Gazette features the Plotthound, one of the AKC's newest breeds, but one of this country's oldest. They descended from German Hanover hounds brought to North Carolina in 1750 and crossed with curs and leopard dogs -- loosely defined "types" of dogs rather than true breeds.

The breed's early 20th-century development was influenced in part by what they were chasing -- Russian boars imported for a commercial hunting reserve that were turned loose when the enterprise folded. These animals may be more formidable opponents than, say, Florida's feral pigs, which are pretty feisty themselves. (Pit bulls, by the way, are popular for pig hunting in Florida. Don't know what dogs they use in Texas.)

In any event, I'd still love to see a video clip and will add going on a boar hunt with Great Danes in Hungary to my Life List!

mp

[gsxrsean]

RE: American versus European.

The dog is....

Ch. Dolf VD Saalburg (Ch. Bosko vd Saalburg x Fauna Moguntia)

Born July 2 1924
Karl Farber and Bad Hurnburg were the Breeder/Owners

[Aggie]

RE: American versus European.

#### of an eye, Mindy :e)

DH bought me an old Dane book that he found at a used book store- IIRC it was mainly a collection of pictures of prominent dogs of the time. I need to pull that sucker out and post about it.

[gsxrsean]

RE: American versus European.

>>>These animals may be more formidable opponents than, say, Florida's feral pigs, which are pretty feisty themselves. (Pit bulls, by the way, are popular for pig hunting in Florida. Don't know what dogs they use in Texas.)<<<

We have lots of Russian Boar and Javalena here in TX and I live in Hog Central, or so it seems..

Most of the Hog hunters around here use Ridgeback/Am Bulldog crosses and Ridgeback/Pit crosses..

From time to time we do get Russian Boar in our back pasture.. Though never will entertain the notion of letting them go on one.. Most of my dogs have enough fun trying to scare the deer off.

[_Crystal_]

RE: American versus European.

Sean,

I'm in Hog central too. A lot of the local farmers are actually paying people to hunt their property to get rid of some of them. Those lil' devils are everywhere and are such a pest! I've never personally entertained the idea of letting one of my pets go after them though.

Here's a link about boar dogs and such. It has some Great Dane crosses along with various other breeds. There are also tons of pictures (some graphic hunting photos..not for the squeamish) and numerous video clips of dogs hunting these wild hogs. The species of hogs shown varies..everything from domestic crosses to Russian Boar.

http://www.boardogs.com/index.html

Take notice that the vast majority of these dogs are not massive bulky dogs, but lean, agile dogs who are able to run down and manuver around an angry hog.

[gsxrsean]

RE: American versus European.

>>The earlier Dane books speak of the Danes of Northern Germany
as being very heavy and those of the southern part of the country, which includes Ulm, as being more elegant.<<<



Here is another picture from Germany this one from Northern Germany circa 1930's

http://www.geocities.com/tarosean/Ba...Schawbhall.jpg

Int. Ch. Baron vd Bad-Stadt-Schwab-Hall
Born: 29 Mar 1934

He was bred in Schabisch-Hall, Germany by Heinrich Heuenstein. and later brought to America.

[mp]

RE: American versus European.

That photo was 50 years after the comments about geographical preferences, however. They were speaking back in the era of Nero I, which I really should have specified as I'm such a history nut that 1924 was yesterday in my mind.

And these were the Danes that Americans bought. What was the overall look of the "everyday" champions who stayed at home? Dolf and his kin were very important Danes in American fawn and brindle pedigrees, but for every Dolf, there were several dozen or more very nice, but less outstanding Danes.

Rather than debating which country produces Danes more closely matching the standard, I wonder more about there being some cultural predisposition for the heavier type in most parts of Europe. It is the style there now.

And I wonder, too, if this would be as much of an issue if folks on this side of the pond weren't using misleading sales slogans to sell pet puppies from European stock.

mp

[Bruno]

RE: American versus European.

If you guys think that an european dane looks like an mastiff you probably never have seen an mastiff or europe dane.
There are like everywhere extrems,but in the case the dane is very elegant here,i even dont like the very heavy ones,but it must not be an greyhound!
The pictures you posted are from breeders who bred elegants,the ulmer ones.
The dogs i posted which are capable to hunt down boar are the ones you see the most here,i own one which is simular to these ones.
He is big yes,but very muscular so he can handle his seize and has great speed.
For example here one from Belgium now

And in the beginning 1900's


Those are the ones i like and are very capable,there is not much difference between those old ones and the ones you still see now very much.

[Bruno]

RE: American versus European.


>
>Take notice that the vast majority of these dogs are not
>massive bulky dogs, but lean, agile dogs who are able to run
>down and manuver around an angry hog.


Did you know that the Bullmastiff/Greatdane cross is very populair those are dogs over 60KG.And take down boar easy.

[gsxrsean]

RE: American versus European.


>And these were the Danes that Americans bought. What was the
overall look of the "everyday" champions who stayed at home? Dolf and his kin were very important Danes in American fawn and brindle pedigrees, but for every Dolf, there were several dozen or more very nice, but less outstanding Danes.<


Though we all only have a few pictures of the danes of the past I honestly do not think they would have been much different than a lot of the others around at the time.. There were just not a whole lot of breeders back then and There certainly was never the "pet market" that exists today....