Raw feeding questions

[smilez4u0102]

I am trying to get into a raw food diet for Oliver. Hes an unusually small Dane. About 81/2 months and barely 80lbs (could be closer to 75). I am trying to get affiliated with a raw food co op in Austin, Texas...near where I live in San Marcos.

I have a few questions:
How much should I feed per day?
What is the average cost per month? (occassionaly, I hear, even cheaper than kibble )
What types of foods should I be weary of?
Dogs are immune to illness that humans get like E.Coli and salmanella?
How much fatty pieces is too much?

And any other information that you could think of would be great. I am 100% new at this, but I want what is best for my "little" boy.

[thisiscyndi]

There are 2 groups in Austin that I know of, the one I am in is in Leander (North). They are a small group that usually places orders once a month so it might not be a problem for you to pick up there? I dont know where the other group is located but I think you can find them with google. The prices are excellent but you need to have a small freezer because the case sizes are from 20-60lbs each. Once you are a member they have all sorts of helpful files available that assist with calculations of feeding amounts and costs, price lists with recommended choices. They also have meetings to discuss how to order, what to order, and answer questions, as well as a small forum for discussion. If you are interested in joining this group, let me know and I will PM you a link.

[Bev_K]

How much should I feed per day?

I would start at around 3% of his body weight. That would mean about 2 ½ lbs a day for him. Break this into a breakfast and a dinner. From there, you can adjust depending on his weight needs and his appetite.

What is the average cost per month? (occassionaly, I hear, even cheaper than kibble )

I’m in deep denial about what I spend a month on dog food. I am fairly confident that I feed raw cheaper than the way I was feeding kibble.

The cost does vary, based on your ability/desire to find good deals. I hazard a guess, but know others track their dog food expenses and will hopefully provide some insight.

What types of foods should I be weary of?

Spend some time reading about what types of things people feed (tons of great info here in the archives and in links provided).

Dogs are immune to illness that humans get like E.Coli and salmanella?

I do not have a fear of my dog contracting these. I couldn’t say if they are completely immune, but their stomachs are certainly capable of handling a lot more things than our stomachs.

How much fatty pieces is too much?

When he gets the squirts, you’ll know! <G> Each dog is a little different, so there isn't a set amount for something like that. Raw feeding is process of trial and error. Go easy on fatty things at first, as the dog will have an adjustment period, during which he will be more sensitive.

[happytail]

We have a "mini Dane" too...she is just over a year old and is only 80 pounds! Still love her though!

How much?

Depends on the dog, but a good starting point would be 2-3% of the ideal adult body weight. This means that if your dog's projected adult weight should be 100 pounds...feed about 2-3 pounds per day. This is just a guideline, and your dog might need more or less depending on activity level. Don't get too hung up on weighing everything out precisely, the 2-3 pounds per day is approximate.

I prefer to tell people to just keep an eye on body condition. You should be able to see the last 2 ribs or so but not back or hip bones. You should be able to see a nice tucked tummy when looking from the side and a defined waist when looking from above. If you notice your dog looking a bit "boney" increase food or a bit "thick" decrease food a bit. Our dogs will fluctuate with their body conditions and if I notice one of them looking a bit chubby, I cut back their ration but just a bit and vice versa.

It is easy for dogs to gain weight while on a raw diet, because they can utilize more of the food that they are ingesting. Be careful not too feed too much.

Average cost?

We pay on average ~$.60 per pound for our meats: chicken backs, chicken quarters, turkey wings, turkey necks, beef heart, beef ribs, pork riblets, pork butt/shoulder roast, whole tilapia, liver, kidney, elk, venison, etc. Costs us ~$4-5 per day (~$125-130 per month) to feed 4 big dogs and 2 cats. If you have just one Dane to feed at ~2.5 pounds per day costing on average ~$.80 per pound...you would spend about $2 per day to feed your dog. Not bad

What not to feed?

Weight bearing bones of large ruminants, including marrow or knuckle bones from cows or other big animals. These bones are just too dense and can easily break teeth. These bones are designed to carry around a huge cow weighing 1000+ pounds. One of our dogs broke a tooth on one a while back before we knew any better and had to have it extracted. Now she has a ton of tartar buildup on that side of her mouth. Its best just to stay away from them.

Ground meats should be avoided, because they are higher in bacterial load because they are ground and are more exposed to bacteria (giving the bacteria plenty of places to multiply, versus a solid chunk of meat). These are ok to feed as long as it is occasionally and it is fresh. I would say no more than once a week if it can be helped. We give ground meats but very rarely. Ground meats also don't provide any dental benefit at all, when one of the biggest perks to raw feeding is dental hygiene.

Odd shaped bones, meaning T-bones. They have the potential to cause blockages due to their irregular shape. Dogs often chew on the T-bone for a while and then swallow the "nub" of the T left and that is when its a problem.

Also, I want to note that it will take a while for your dog's "chemistry" to change to be able to fully digest raw bones. It is very common to see bone fragments in the stool for the first few months. Don't panic. This is normal and harmless. Once your dog gets to be a pro at digesting raw bones, the instances of bone fragments in stool become less and less. For this reason, I suggest only giving poultry bones (ie chicken and turkey- but not turkey wings...those bones are pretty dense) for the first few months because they are softer and easier for the dog to digest. Making the transition as easy as possible for the dog and you is the idea behind doing a safe, gradual switch.

Bacteria?

Salmonella and E. coli are just not a problem for dogs. Their immune systems are much more hardy than ours. Their core temperature is normally 100-102.5 which is a pretty high fever for us. Their bodies are just one big hostile environment for bacteria, so they don't get much of a chance to reek havoc and cause disease. Immune compromised dogs on the other hand are at a slightly higher risk, but the good thing is that the increased nutrition they get from a raw diet actually boosts their immune system!

A dog's digestive system is comparatively short to ours, and raw meats and bones take only about 6 hours to complete the tract...kibble on the other hand sits around for 12-24 hours creating more of an opportunity for bacteria to bloom in the gut and cause colitis and other digestive upsets.

Fat?

I have never worried much about fat...but my dogs let me know when they got too much! Its something called "cannon butt" which is liquid diarrhea that shoots out...LOL...sorry to be so graphic about it but that is when you know when there was too much fat (or too much organ meat...). The only thing that I still trim the fat off is when we butcher a whole turkey...those are pretty fatty. Also the beef heart can sometimes have a lot of fat around it.

Fat is what raw fed dogs use for energy, unlike carbs for us. So having a good amount of fat in their diet that they can handle and every dog is different in what amounts they can tolerate things.

[Hannah and Jack]

Excellent information on a good raw diet Happytail! Many KUDOS to you :-)