Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

American versus European.

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    RE: American versus European.

    >To answer your question it is illegal to breed mixed dogs you
    >have to get them fixed by the time there 6 month old.

    Is this a national German law?

    I know there are states and cities in Germany and like this country, they all no doubt have their own laws and legislation. So when you write that one must have mixed-breed dogs fixed by six months of age, this means it is German national legislation?

    I know I always get confused over what is a legal requirement and what is a national kennel club requirement! Would appreciate your clarification.

    Thanks.

    mp

    Comment


    • #62
      RE: American versus European.

      http://xceldanes.com/Flagdee.JPG


      You dear Frau Claudia were the one bad mouthing America and our ways. I'm sure if positions were reversed and I came to your country and brought up things I disliked {that had NOTHING to do with dogs}...you would feel the same.

      Altho my country is in a state of political disrepair {IMO} at the present time..we are still the greatest nation in the World. And I for one am not ashamed to say that.


      Dee
      sigpic

      Comment


      • #63
        RE: American versus European.

        >http://xceldanes.com/Flagdee.JPG
        >
        >
        >You dear Frau Claudia were the one bad mouthing America and
        >our ways. I'm sure if positions were reversed and I came to
        >your country and brought up things I disliked {that had
        >NOTHING to do with dogs}...you would feel the same.
        >
        >Altho my country is in a state of political disrepair {IMO} at
        >the present time..we are still the greatest nation in the
        >World. And I for one am not ashamed to say that.
        >
        >
        >Dee

        Well there are a lot of people that think Germany is way to controlled and would be a bad place to live.
        Again these are my opinions I stated and yes some of them had to do with the Country because everything ties in together may be some of it indirectly.
        But never the less even though it didn't directly have to do with dogs some of the things here and the way there done as far as laws.
        Some of the things affect dogs and how and what you can do with them.
        You think you are the greatest nation in the world well there are people who would agree with you and people who disagree.
        That is part of what makes the US great you can agree or disagree your choice.
        And even though I don't agree with everything the US does doesn't mean I don't think it is a great place to live.

        Comment


        • #64
          RE: American versus European.

          >I have to agree with the breeder from Germany.
          >I am German I have a Great Dane and I also have 2 German
          >Shephards.
          >both full German lines.

          I too agree with *some* of what Germany is doing. The problem is I think their approach is overly totalitarian in some cases. There is no greater force in the world than the will of the people. The US is founded on the idea that people have rights that no other person can infringe upon, whether that infringement is the will of the people or not. Because of that, in this country the will of the people is most often expressed via their participation in the economy. If all of the people willed it, backyard breeders would vanish overhight because nobody would buy their pups. The need for government to be involved only comes when some people don't agree and others want to force their will upon them. It's difficult to insitute thing like anti-cropping laws because of this. It basically comes down to some people like cropped ears and therefore it's a question of whether govenment has the right to enforce their will up on those people who want ear cropping. In this country, the way to institute change is to influence the will of the people, and change will follow. Change the way people view danes, make the uncropped look what people associate with danes you won't need anti cropping laws.

          >And I would have to say Americans have changed breeds to what
          >they think looks better in the showring.
          >My German Shepherd would do nothing in an American ring
          >because he stands straight and dosen't look like he is trying
          >to sit down all the time where does that ad function to the
          >dog?

          I totally agree with you that the look American's prefer in Alsatians is not good for the dog. Having spent a lot of time around a GSD with a more square look I think it's just a matter of preference. The American look reminds me of how my 12 year old dane used to look when their rear end began to fail.

          Where I can't agree is in the generalization that it applies to all breeds and all Americans. Many people in this country are into athletic competition with their dogs, agility, flyball, hunting, and yes even schutzhund. These people are changing the face of some breeds because dogs bred to compete have to be able to perform. There's a big difference between the way a Lab bred for agility or hunting would look compared to one bred for the show ring.

          >In my opinion breeds where designed for a purpose and should
          >be able to do that job first and formost.
          >:7 All dogs had a purpose at one point some of course are no
          >longer possible but the dog should look like it can do the
          >job.

          That's the rub. Boar hunting is largely illegal in the US (I've looked). Even if we could breed a dane that wwe think is capable of boar hunting we couldn't test it and determine that it is. Testing it could be a very dangerous proposition for the dog at the very least. I think the best we can hope for is that the dog world outside the show ring is growing and as it grows to include performance it will bring more pressure on breeders to breed dogs that look good in the ring and can perform well as athletes. IMHO that's the best possible outcome.

          Comment


          • #65
            RE: American versus European.

            >>I have to agree with the breeder from Germany.
            >>I am German I have a Great Dane and I also have 2 German
            >>Shephards.
            >>both full German lines.
            >
            >I too agree with *some* of what Germany is doing. The problem
            >is I think their approach is overly totalitarian in some
            >cases. There is no greater force in the world than the will of
            >the people. The US is founded on the idea that people have
            >rights that no other person can infringe upon, whether that
            >infringement is the will of the people or not. Because of
            >that, in this country the will of the people is most often
            >expressed via their participation in the economy. If all of
            >the people willed it, backyard breeders would vanish overhight
            >because nobody would buy their pups. The need for government
            >to be involved only comes when some people don't agree and
            >others want to force their will upon them. It's difficult to
            >insitute thing like anti-cropping laws because of this. It
            >basically comes down to some people like cropped ears and
            >therefore it's a question of whether govenment has the right
            >to enforce their will up on those people who want ear
            >cropping. In this country, the way to institute change is to
            >influence the will of the people, and change will follow.
            >Change the way people view danes, make the uncropped look what
            >people associate with danes you won't need anti cropping
            >laws.
            >
            >>And I would have to say Americans have changed breeds to
            >what
            >>they think looks better in the showring.
            >>My German Shepherd would do nothing in an American ring
            >>because he stands straight and dosen't look like he is
            >trying
            >>to sit down all the time where does that ad function to the
            >>dog?
            >
            >I totally agree with you that the look American's prefer in
            >Alsatians is not good for the dog. Having spent a lot of time
            >around a GSD with a more square look I think it's just a
            >matter of preference. The American look reminds me of how my
            >12 year old dane used to look when their rear end began to
            >fail.
            >
            >Where I can't agree is in the generalization that it applies
            >to all breeds and all Americans. Many people in this country
            >are into athletic competition with their dogs, agility,
            >flyball, hunting, and yes even schutzhund. These people are
            >changing the face of some breeds because dogs bred to compete
            >have to be able to perform. There's a big difference between
            >the way a Lab bred for agility or hunting would look compared
            >to one bred for the show ring.
            >
            >>In my opinion breeds where designed for a purpose and should
            >>be able to do that job first and formost.
            >>:7 All dogs had a purpose at one point some of course are
            >no
            >>longer possible but the dog should look like it can do the
            >>job.
            >
            >That's the rub. Boar hunting is largely illegal in the US
            >(I've looked). Even if we could breed a dane that wwe think is
            >capable of boar hunting we couldn't test it and determine that
            >it is. Testing it could be a very dangerous proposition for
            >the dog at the very least. I think the best we can hope for is
            >that the dog world outside the show ring is growing and as it
            >grows to include performance it will bring more pressure on
            >breeders to breed dogs that look good in the ring and can
            >perform well as athletes. IMHO that's the best possible
            >outcome.
            >

            Well sometimes I can put to many things together and generalize to much.
            But as far as peoples right to do as they wish it shouldn't be at the expense of other creatures especialy since we love dogs we should want them to be happy and healthy wich includes wanting to breed dogs that are happy and healthy.
            My German Shephard is slowing down somewhat in his older age but when he is around my Dane puppy he plays like a Puppy even beeing ove 10 years old.
            No hip problems in sight.
            }(

            Comment


            • #66
              RE: American versus European.

              >>To answer your question it is illegal to breed mixed dogs
              >you
              >>have to get them fixed by the time there 6 month old.
              >
              >Is this a national German law?
              >
              >I know there are states and cities in Germany and like this
              >country, they all no doubt have their own laws and
              >legislation. So when you write that one must have mixed-breed
              >dogs fixed by six months of age, this means it is German
              >national legislation?
              >
              >I know I always get confused over what is a legal requirement
              >and what is a national kennel club requirement! Would
              >appreciate your clarification.
              >
              >Thanks.
              >
              >mp
              Well the Government stays out of most Dog legislation but our way of registering dogs has more power and influence than AKC IT IS MORE THAN JUST A PLACE WHERE YOU GET PAPERS for your dog.
              They have a hand in everything that has to do with dogs and since the fines for not having tags on your dog is huge.
              They know who owns what and know how to keep track of dogs that need to be fixed.
              So in the German case the people that register your dog also have a hand in controlling it.
              I used to take my dog everywhere in Germany the stores any store except Grocery stores dogs are allowed.
              Even restaurants.

              Claudia

              Comment


              • #67
                RE: American versus European.

                >this might start a fire storm, but here it goes. The
                >government is involve when it comes to pets. ever hear of th
                >USDA? Many of the puppymills are registered with them. There
                >is guidelines by which some breeders, unethcial as it is, will
                >become licensed to sell animals to research lab. So, please
                >don't think they are not involved. They may not be walking
                >the show rings and telling breeders how many puppies they can
                >have in a litter, but they help fund the humane societies that
                >get millions of pets each year that have to be destroyed
                >because there isn't enough home, not to mention the society we
                >live in is a throw away society. If it isn't a prefect fit
                >into the home it's given away, or threw away, or the worse
                >phase in the english language,"gotten rid of".
                >As far as culling, it has it's place. The guidelines in
                >Germany is in place to prevent cruelty. By saying that dane
                >owners can't breed 2 harleys they reduce deaf and or blind
                >pups. No cropping/docking. I don't know about you but I
                >agree with that, both of my danes are natural, and most of the
                >ads I've read states "natural" . They are stating to obvious,
                > if you breed the extremes of dogdom you will get in some
                >instances reasons why there should be culling. If there is a
                >severely handicapped puppy, ex no eyes, missing limbs,deaf and
                >blind. Are you, if you are a breeder, going to keep this pup?
                > In a perfect world most would argue that they would adopt out
                >this pup, but what if that isn't an option? What then?
                >Maybe, if the government did take a stand, ex institute a tax
                >for unlicensed, unaltered pets, that MAYBE millions of pets
                >wouldn't have to die in abusive homes, on the road, and even
                >in shelters. More people would become educated before they
                >threw Fluffy and Jack to gether to have puppies so the kids
                >could see the "miracle of life". If they what to educate the
                >kids take them to a shelter to see all the older pets, and
                >THEN take them to a rescue to see what's been "gotten rid of".
                >
                >I'll get off my soap box now, but please don't think the
                >government isn't involved in the pet-animal trade. AND maybe,
                >a heavier government hand would be a help to educate the bybs
                >out there.
                >=crystal=
                >
                You are right and it does start with people who need to want reform but not enough people think there is anything wrong with "DESIGNER DOGS" or Dogs that are so far undersized for there breed but because they have AKC papers it makes them great breeding dogs.
                And enough ignorant people support there puppy selling by being them.
                Until people have enough of having to spend extra money on Vet bill's over things that could have been prevented by not breeding certain dogs nothing will change.
                I go to the Dog park everyday and I am amazed by the irresponsibility I see when people show of there pups that they got out of dogs that "I know I have said it to much" would have never even had papers in Germany because they are so far of the standard it is sad.
                When a German Shepherd is smaller than a Border Collie and has papers and puppies that people are paying for that's just wrong.

                Claudia

                Comment

                Working...
                X