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  • thegreatgatsby
    started a topic Puppy Daycare and Neuter

    Puppy Daycare and Neuter

    Hi Everyone!

    We do not crate train, we take our 7 month old Gatsby to a puppy daycare every day while we are at work. The daycare is telling us that his mounting of other dogs is out of control and are kicking him out of daycare if it doesn't stop! They have a rule that any dog in the daycare must be spayed or neutered if they are above 6 months of age, they made an exception for us because he is a giant breed.

    We are so stressed out because we wanted to wait until he was at least 9 or 10 months (at the minimum!) but they are telling us his mounting is out of control. My concern is that if we do it now it will be too early and I don't want to tack his stomach while he is still small.

    But also, the daycare is awesome for socialization AND he isn't left home alone 45 hours a week.

    Do you all leave your puppies at home? Do they not eat a lunch?

    Isn't it critical for socialization around this age to be around other dogs?

    Should we neuter early since he is humping other dogs so much?

    We are just so scared to be losing this resource. Any advice?

  • thegreatgatsby
    replied
    Originally posted by Greenmagick View Post
    I would bet that its an overexcitement/stress/anxiety issue. What does the day care do when he mounts? What they SHOULD be doing is well yeah, if its only the one dog, separate them. But also watch him for signs that he is getting amped up and remove him before he starts mounting. Give him a time out or nap time and let him settle back down.

    Daycare is pretty overwhelming often and not all dogs do well with it full time. DO they get frequent breaks or is it a play play play all the time place? He is still young but starting to mature, group loose play may not be the best fit for him any longer.

    But yes, likely neutering is not going to do much to stop this.
    Originally posted by mnmouse View Post
    What daycare doesn't use crates for quiet time? Where does he go to settle once in a while? He can't be in group 100% the whole day, that would be WAY too much stimulation for a puppy.
    Originally posted by SuzanneRM82 View Post
    Or quiet time after meals? Not like he needs to eat then jump right back into the fray.
    Sorry guys! I didn't clarify very well. He is crated at his daycare. He is crated for any times outs from bad behavior/when he gets too rowdy. He is also in the crate one hour before his lunch and one hour after his lunch.

    We just choose not to crate at home - he has no issues sleeping the whole night through and he's been fine on weekends when we aren't around. So we do not crate at home. But, yes... at the daycare they use crates for time outs, nap time, and then the 2 hour meal time period that he has.

    I was told that they tried time outs and corrections and he was still non-stop mounting this dog. I have never seen this situation so I don't know enough. When I pick him up today I am going to try and make my final plea... to see if there is anything we can do (separation, more time outs, anything).

    Thank you for all the suggestions! I am just really trying to do all the right things for Gatsby, he is our first dog and we are just learning how to handle him as we go.

    Leave a comment:


  • SuzanneRM82
    replied
    Originally posted by mnmouse View Post
    What daycare doesn't use crates for quiet time? Where does he go to settle once in a while? He can't be in group 100% the whole day, that would be WAY too much stimulation for a puppy.
    Or quiet time after meals? Not like he needs to eat then jump right back into the fray.

    Leave a comment:


  • mnmouse
    replied
    What daycare doesn't use crates for quiet time? Where does he go to settle once in a while? He can't be in group 100% the whole day, that would be WAY too much stimulation for a puppy.

    Leave a comment:


  • Greenmagick
    replied
    I would bet that its an overexcitement/stress/anxiety issue. What does the day care do when he mounts? What they SHOULD be doing is well yeah, if its only the one dog, separate them. But also watch him for signs that he is getting amped up and remove him before he starts mounting. Give him a time out or nap time and let him settle back down.

    Daycare is pretty overwhelming often and not all dogs do well with it full time. DO they get frequent breaks or is it a play play play all the time place? He is still young but starting to mature, group loose play may not be the best fit for him any longer.

    But yes, likely neutering is not going to do much to stop this.

    Leave a comment:


  • thegreatgatsby
    replied
    Originally posted by Titan3151 View Post
    i was surprised the read that your daycare made an exception..... I talked to 4 locations and they were not willing to even consider the idea of letting Titan come and play.... as long as he still had his dangly bits... it was neuter at 6 months or no play!!!
    They are really great, the location I take him is awesome. It's just frustrating because I feel helpless. Once we do decide to neuter I think I'll bring him back occasionally for continued play.

    I guess I am just at finding a walked right now, worst case scenario would be to speed home on lunch breaks and hope he hasn't made a mess by the time I get there

    Leave a comment:


  • Titan3151
    replied
    i was surprised the read that your daycare made an exception..... I talked to 4 locations and they were not willing to even consider the idea of letting Titan come and play.... as long as he still had his dangly bits... it was neuter at 6 months or no play!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • thegreatgatsby
    replied
    Originally posted by Zugo View Post
    Well, if it's only with the ONE dog, why can't the daycare just seperate the two?
    It sounds like stress/overexitement to me, and neutering may not solve the problem at all.

    Is it possible for you to leave him home for two/three days of the week, and have him at daycare the other days? Then he'll get a break from what's stressing him, and he'll also not be home alone the full week.
    I am trying to figure out a way that the daycare can work with me, I love how active he is and how much fun he has at daycare. They have a huge outdoor playground as well as an indoor space, not sure if separation is possible. I don't know if they would want to have to separate dogs when in order to be in the program they had to go through a temperament test and be okay with all of them.

    Originally posted by Titan3151 View Post
    at 7 months I am almost leaning towards that being a dominance thing or over excited thing....

    Titan is 8.5 months now and still has not humped a thing, not even thing air - not sure. pet walker would be a good place to start in keeping him stimulated and out of the crate a couple times... and the socializing thing can still happen if you can find a playgroup to get with a couple times a week.
    I really do feel it's behavioral at this point, I have never seen him hump anything. So it is only at the daycare with particular dogs. It may be dominance related with those certain dogs? At home he's never humped a person or thing EVER. So this is frustrating.

    Not sure we will even use a crate, I am going to contact dog walkers/care.com (or any site anyone can recommend) as a start. I think he would be okay at home all day long without us being there if he had a visitor for half an hour to play with him and let him out.

    I am debating leaving my job (not for this specific reason only, there are MANY many more that I won't bore anyone with) to find a more flexible position. Does anyone have any advice in that area? For a flexible hours/almost work from home type position? I wish our dogs could come with us everywhere. Problem solved.

    Leave a comment:


  • Titan3151
    replied
    at 7 months I am almost leaning towards that being a dominance thing or over excited thing....

    Titan is 8.5 months now and still has not humped a thing, not even thing air - not sure. pet walker would be a good place to start in keeping him stimulated and out of the crate a couple times... and the socializing thing can still happen if you can find a playgroup to get with a couple times a week.

    Leave a comment:


  • Zugo
    replied
    Well, if it's only with the ONE dog, why can't the daycare just seperate the two?
    It sounds like stress/overexitement to me, and neutering may not solve the problem at all.

    Is it possible for you to leave him home for two/three days of the week, and have him at daycare the other days? Then he'll get a break from what's stressing him, and he'll also not be home alone the full week.

    Leave a comment:


  • thegreatgatsby
    replied
    Originally posted by lisacp75 View Post
    Or can you ask if the daycare would be willing to work on training him out of this? It only took a day and a half to train Zoomer out of barking at us for food - but then again, he HATES the squirt bottle so it may not be so easy for a more rambunctious dog. Sorry you're dealing with this stress....

    edited to add - Just realized you said you don't crate train - did he have problems with crating earlier on? (it looks like a crate in your avatar almost) Bcz it's never too late to crate train if you take it slow and follow good crate training tips.
    I believe that any undesirable behavior can be trained out of him, he is a great dog and responds pretty well. I think he is hitting his teenage years however. So he is fighting back more and not listening as well. The daycare people have told me that it is with one specific dog, when they try to correct the behavior it is just non-stop. It is very frustrating because it was like a switch flipped when he turned 6 months and he started regressing in training, pulling on the leash (minimal but much more than before), barking at the door to visitors (in a protective way, not necessarily a psycho way), and this mounting stuff at daycare.

    It's also incredibly frustrating because this behavior does NOT happen in our house. I have never seen him mount another animal and he's never tried it on furniture, the air, or us. So I have never even had the chance to try and work with him on the issue. But right now, we are evaluating my current job to see if I can find one with a more flexible schedule (yea, right ) or hire a dog walker. Because the dog simply can not be home alone 5 days a week, 8+ hours a day.

    Originally posted by SuzanneRM82 View Post
    The critical socialization period is more in the area of 2-4 months. I would also start crate training. There will more than likely be a point in the future where it will be quite handy, like post neuter and pexy. At this age he is old enough to go to two meals a day, so I wouldn't stress too much about him not getting a lunch. I'd look into a dog walker.
    We personally chose not to crate train, we just never had a reason for it. He does fine on the weekends when we leave him for long days. He's never destroyed anything or chewed through things, he just hangs out when we are gone I'm assuming. I guess after a neuter/pexy it would be very handy. It's just frustrating because I'm not sure how he will handle 40+ hours a week home alone, and definitely not sure how he would be in a crate.

    Originally posted by KatieRae View Post
    I'm surprised he's having such an issue at seven months, but i suppose every dog is different. Apollo is now 8 months ( time flies) and he doesn't have any mounting issues, rather, he might hump the air a bit when he gets really excited.
    I'd talk to the daycare and ask that they start reprimanding him how you would like them to so this behavior stops and he can continue to attend.
    He started his acting out behavior right around 6 months. It was crazy! But, I've spoken with them and I guess it is just becoming non-stop. To the point where they no longer want to deal with it, and like I said before - he doesn't do these things at home. So it is so frustrating and hard to correct when I am never around the problems! They've basically gotten to the "if you don't neuter soon, he can't come anymore" decision. So frustrating because I know that there are people out there with intact males that are well behaved.

    Leave a comment:


  • KatieRae
    replied
    I'm surprised he's having such an issue at seven months, but i suppose every dog is different. Apollo is now 8 months ( time flies) and he doesn't have any mounting issues, rather, he might hump the air a bit when he gets really excited.

    I think he has tried humping someone's leg a few times, but got the squirt bottle every time, and I'm pretty sure he's broken of it.

    I'd talk to the daycare and ask that they start reprimanding him how you would like them to so this behavior stops and he can continue to attend.

    Leave a comment:


  • SuzanneRM82
    replied
    I would not neuter at 7 months, and I'm pretty sure it's too early to tack him anyway. Fergus went through a humping phase. His blanket, other dogs, shoes, whatever. I just distracted him and got him focused on something else, and he finally moved past it.

    The critical socialization period is more in the area of 2-4 months. I would also start crate training. There will more than likely be a point in the future where it will be quite handy, like post neuter and pexy. At this age he is old enough to go to two meals a day, so I wouldn't stress too much about him not getting a lunch. I'd look into a dog walker.

    Leave a comment:


  • lisacp75
    replied
    Hmmm that's a tough one. But mounting isn't always a sexual maturity or neutering/not neutering issue. Many will say it is a behavioral problem. Our spayed, female Aussie mix was that type of dog - she mounted other dogs for dominance reasons. So there are no guarantees that the behavior will stop post-neuter anyway.

    Maybe a dog walker could come to your our midday instead, at least until his is old enough for the neuter/pexy? And try to work on him w/ the training at the same time, if you are able to get him to duplicate the behavior elsewhere. Or can you ask if the daycare would be willing to work on training him out of this? It only took a day and a half to train Zoomer out of barking at us for food - but then again, he HATES the squirt bottle so it may not be so easy for a more rambunctious dog. Sorry you're dealing with this stress....

    edited to add - Just realized you said you don't crate train - did he have problems with crating earlier on? (it looks like a crate in your avatar almost) Bcz it's never too late to crate train if you take it slow and follow good crate training tips.
    Last edited by lisacp75; 10-01-2014, 07:31 PM. Reason: to add something else

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