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  • Derangedfox
    started a topic Taping Irritation Issues!

    Taping Irritation Issues!

    Hello everyone! I have a 12 week old Dane named Diesel. He is our first GD and this is also my first experience with posting and taping the cropped ears. I have been following the basic method of the infamous Summit View ear taping with the help of a local breeder and show handler of Danes. She taped his ears for me the first two times, so I could watch and try to learn the techniques involved.

    About five or six days after the second taping, I noticed an unpleasant sore at the base of his right ear with bleeding that was apparent on the bottom of the tape. In addition, there was a lot of greenish-yellow pus-like goop emitting from the folds on both ears, and it was noticeable on the tapes, not to mention an off-putting smell.

    My husband and I decided to cut a one inch slit in the tape to allow the stinky goop to drain out. We followed this by swabbing inside the exposed fold with rubbing alcohol with a q-tip, then applied some Gold Bond powder in the crease/fold to help absorb the moisture. The following morning, I contacted my local Dane resource and she suggested I go ahead and take the tapes down, clean the ears, and put new posts and tapes on.

    Now mind you, this was my first taping. I tried to be very careful and follow directions closely to ensure I don't create an issue. I even applied medicated Gold Bond powder to most of his ears, paying extra special attention to the folds. However, I am very worried I may have done something wrong. The tapes I put on looked fine in my point of view, but the following day, the smelly yellowish goop was back and seeping from the folds in both ears.

    My local resource contact (Dane breeder/show handler) suggested I take the tapes down completely and wait for her to return from a dog show so I could drive Diesel to her kennel and have her take a look at the problem. When I carefully removed the tapes with the unisolve adhesive remover, my poor pup appeared to be in a great deal of pain and totally detested the process. I realized why he was so agitated when I finally got the tapes off, because he has major irritation and raw skin that is scabbing up on the hair side of his ear. I wanted to cry, I felt so bad for my baby and I feel like I've done something wrong to harm him!

    To date, his ears have been down for three days now and I have been cleaning the wounds with 70% rubbing alcohol and applying a thin layer of neosporin to promote healing on his scabs. I am taking him to my experienced local Dane contact today (she is finally back from dog show) to see what we can do to resolve these problems.

    I have attached a few photos of Diesel's ears to give you an idea of what I am trying to deal with. Any and all suggestions and/or advice would be GREATLY appreciated, as I feel horrible for my poor baby. Every time I try to treat his wounds, he cries (possibly the stinging from the alcohol?) and I feel just awful that he has to go through this. I am at such a loss of what to do about the issue.

    I know just about every Dane owner has their own techniques on how to handle these problems, which is why I'm turning to you helpful and experienced DOL members for your opinions and advice. Again, thank you so very much in advance!!

    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1343496918.646577.jpg
    This is his bad ear (his right ear) just after removing the posts and tapes the local breeder applied.

    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1343497055.397631.jpg
    Not a good quality shot, but this shows the inside view of the ear after tape removal.

    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1343497594.950763.jpg
    Here are his ears the following day after I taped him myself. As you can see, the Gold Bond powder didn't seem to have much affect on the sticky goop in the folds, as it was so bad as to stain the tapes.

    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1343497191.376739.jpg
    This shows the fold that I mentioned that had an unpleasant yellowish-greenish sticky goo in both ears. This was after I taped him myself, then removed them the next day.

    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1343497315.649029.jpg
    This image makes me feel like I've done something terribly wrong. This was a short time after I removed the tapes I applied the previous day. This shows the irritation that formed after I had taped him myself. I did not force the tapes off, in fact, I liberally used the unisolve adhesive remover to carefully and gently remove the tape.

    I feel like such a bad mommy to my baby boy. I hate to see him like this and he scratches at his ears, obviously they are bothering him. Also, my heart just breaks when he cries and struggles to get away while I try to clean them up and treat the wounds. Please help! I am desperate to take good care of my baby!


    Proud momma of Diesel and Eva

  • oceanbluedanes
    replied
    Originally posted by Derangedfox View Post
    Ahh, sorry I haven't replied with any updates. I had my local resource, a knowledgable Great Dane breeder, take a look and tape up his ears for me. She was originally the person I had to help show me how to even post and tape his ears in the first place. She said he's too young to have any broken cartilage and that it's just a buckle in the ear (thank goodness!). She re-posted and taped him up, and now you'd never know he had the problem. She managed to pull the skin of the buckle more taut, and both ears are in a normal position in the tapes. I am taking him back to her for his next set of posts and tapes so she can make sure we are correcting it properly. I'll update when I see his ears down again!
    ~Dana~
    Proud momma of Diesel and Eva
    Just saw this. That is great news! Definitely keep us updated with pics!

    Leave a comment:


  • Derangedfox
    replied
    Ahh, sorry I haven't replied with any updates. I had my local resource, a knowledgable Great Dane breeder, take a look and tape up his ears for me. She was originally the person I had to help show me how to even post and tape his ears in the first place. She said he's too young to have any broken cartilage and that it's just a buckle in the ear (thank goodness!). She re-posted and taped him up, and now you'd never know he had the problem. She managed to pull the skin of the buckle more taut, and both ears are in a normal position in the tapes. I am taking him back to her for his next set of posts and tapes so she can make sure we are correcting it properly. I'll update when I see his ears down again!


    ~Dana~
    Proud momma of Diesel and Eva

    Leave a comment:


  • daneowned
    replied
    His ears look really good with that tape helping to support it. Now that the irritation issue is solved, once you do start taping again, don't take them down every 2-3 days like you said you were doing. I always like to leave them at least a week or more. I'm sure you were taking them down so often due to the irritation.

    Leave a comment:


  • lwrees72
    replied
    Cartilage breaks typically require surgery to repair. As mentioned, some options for simple breaks are scoring or the button hole technique. For more severe breaks, implants are really the only option. Implants are illegal in the show ring and rarely seen. As the name implies, it involves inserting a rod or plate surgically into the ear to cover the break, giving it rigidty and allowing it to stand.

    Leave a comment:


  • oceanbluedanes
    replied
    Originally posted by fets View Post
    If the cartilage is broken (which I super hope it's not), what would be the options to fix it?
    It totally depends on the individual ear. Some cartilage breaks are very minor and scoring (scarring the ear in such a way as to intentionally cause scar tissue to form) can mitigate some of the damage and get them to stand. A lot of times, unfortunately, cartilage breaks result in an ear that never stands. Hopefully that's not what's going on in his case...

    The ears were down a lot in the beginning from open sores. Unfortunately Diesel experienced contact dermatitis to the tape the breeder recommended (still shocked she didn't notify you). They couldn't keep the ears posted, as he was miserable. After she switched tapes, the sores healed fine. Is it possible the ear is doing this because they were initially down for awhile? Is there a chance that they will correct with time and proper posting, but she may have to post longer because of the delay?
    Absolutely and this is what I hope is the case.

    Leave a comment:


  • fets
    replied
    If the cartilage is broken (which I super hope it's not), what would be the options to fix it?

    The ears were down a lot in the beginning from open sores. Unfortunately Diesel experienced contact dermatitis to the tape the breeder recommended (still shocked she didn't notify you). They couldn't keep the ears posted, as he was miserable. After she switched tapes, the sores healed fine. Is it possible the ear is doing this because they were initially down for awhile? Is there a chance that they will correct with time and proper posting, but she may have to post longer because of the delay?

    Leave a comment:


  • lwrees72
    replied
    As mentioned, without seeing it in person, I cannot answer if it is broken. That said, a cropping experienced vet should be able to recognize it. The ears look great in your latest photos. Just have the vet check it if the ear flops againt he next time the tape is removed!

    Leave a comment:


  • oceanbluedanes
    replied
    Hopefully it's not broken cartilage but without seeing and feeling it in person, I really can't say. If your vet didn't think it was broken, perhaps it's not. Or - the vet has never seen broken cartilage. But if he's as experienced as you say, I would think he would know and recognize if he saw it. I've just never seeen the ear fold at that 90 degree angle straight out of tapes before (without the cartilage being broken). Pockets certainly cause wonky leaning and bending, but again, I've never seen pockets result in that severe of a bend. I suppose it's possible...

    It looks like the vet taped that ear in such as way as to give it the support it needs. I guess you will see what the ear does when you take that down. If it's supported like that for a week or so and bends over (like your previous pic) immediately, then I would strongly suspect a cartilage break. If it stands straight at that point (even just temporarily), then you're good to go.

    Hoping for the best, he's such a pretty boy!

    Leave a comment:


  • Derangedfox
    replied
    Wow, I must admit I'm quite surprised at the reactions I got from posting those recent photos.

    Is the cartilage broken? I don't know... how would I be able to tell if it were?

    I just had Diesel at the veterinarian shortly after I took the tapes down today and posted those pictures here on the forum. I do not have a cropping specific vet, as his ears were cropped by the breeder's veterinarian in Illinois and I am in Virginia.

    The vet I use here is highly recommended by local Dane breeders, and he has a lot of experience with giant breeds, Great Danes especially. I have been very pleased with him and his practice. He did not seem to make any ordeal over Diesel's flopped ear at all. In fact, what he did for me was apply a little rubber skin glue to a part of the ear, and make a sort of "C" tape to give it some rigidness and support from falling inwards. He examined the ears and commented how nicely they healed, but didn't say anything about the cartilage. I would think if my pup had broken cartilage, the veterinarian would have recognized that right away, no?

    Here are photos I took again of him today, after his veterinarian visit. This will show you what my vet did to add some support to the ear. Please note I am not holding his skin or ears up to manipulate them in these pictures, I am just holding his collar so he would sit still for the photos.

    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1345078974.762188.jpg

    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1345079009.739336.jpg

    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1345079035.999017.jpg

    I may be inexperienced, and therefore mistaken, but I honestly don't believe there is a majorly serious issue with the ear. I was thinking that it is more of a pocket that formed from my tape jobs and that it can be corrected with the proper posting techniques. I mean, it's not like he's been in posts/tapes for THAT long. But again, I lack experience and knowledge on this matter, which is why I am turning to DOL again. The ear still wants to lean inwards towards his head a bit, but it's not just folded over since the couple pieces of tape the vet put on him.

    Originally posted by oceanbluedanes View Post
    Holy crap, it flopped over like that immediately after tapes were removed? Did it stand up at all? How long have you been taping again? And how long had he been taped continuously before you removed the tape for the photo?
    Yes, it flopped over immediately after the tapes were removed. It did not stand up straight at all since we started having these issues. It started with just a lean inwards, then over the course of about a week, progressed to this extreme fold over. But please also refer to my previous post with photos of his ears in the tapes. The left ear was flopped inward with his posts and tapes in and it is explained in my post and shown in the pictures. My post today was not the first time I requested help with this problem. His left ear hasn't always looked like this, as you can see from my profile picture, which is why I was wondering if it is the method of taping that is causing this.

    We have been having him in consistent tapes for almost two weeks now, but have been changing the posts and tapes every 2-3 days. Since we started noticing the inward flop over his head, it has progressively gotten worse. It wasn't this extreme overnight. He was in tapes for three days before I took them down today and took the photos.

    Is it really THAT bad? Now I'm quite concerned from the responses so far today...


    ~Dana~
    Proud momma of Diesel and Eva

    Leave a comment:


  • oceanbluedanes
    replied
    Originally posted by lwrees72 View Post
    Is the cartilage broken? I have only ever see an ear flop like that after several postings when the cartilage was broken. You may need to revisit your cropping vet.
    I was thinking the same thing... :-/

    Leave a comment:


  • lwrees72
    replied
    Is the cartilage broken? I have only ever see an ear flop like that after several postings when the cartilage was broken. You may need to revisit your cropping vet.

    Leave a comment:


  • oceanbluedanes
    replied
    Holy crap, it flopped over like that immediately after tapes were removed? Did it stand up at all? How long have you been taping again? And how long had he been taped continuously before you removed the tape for the photo?

    Leave a comment:


  • Derangedfox
    replied
    As far as vet wrap goes, I am very familiar with it as my fiancé and I are in the horse business. However, I don't think it's necessary to use on Diesel's ears, since we are no longer having the skin irritations since we switched the tape we are using to Johnson and Johnson Zonas Porous tape. The problem was with the Kendall Covedien brand and my pup's ears have healed since the change.

    My issue now is getting his left ear to stand. We have re-posted and re-taped his ears four times now and we are still experiencing the same problem. We are making genuine efforts to pull the ears up and out while taping, but we are obviously not doing something right.

    Here are his ears after taking down the posts and tapes today.

    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1345056852.681468.jpg

    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1345056925.687569.jpg

    I really appreciate everyones' experienced opinions and advice. I hope we can correct this!


    ~Dana~
    Proud momma of Diesel and Eva

    Leave a comment:


  • 111Danes
    replied
    C a u t i o n

    To the OP and possible future readers:

    I would be EXTREMELY CAUTIOUS in using vet wrap on posted ears.

    I know a Dane breeder who used to do this...until she lost the ear tips on two show potential litter mates.

    Danefully,

    Dru

    Leave a comment:

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