12 week old Lexi growling

[Caseymelinda82]

Lexi turned 12 weeks old today and for the last day or so she has taken up growling when my daughter (9) touches her when she's sleeping. Today she growled while she was chewing on a bone and she went to give her ears a scratch. Just now while I was typing this she started to pee on the floor (we are down to this only happening occasionally, so lucky there!)...I asked my daughter to take her out and Lexi headed for the back door. Sam made a bad choice ill admit and went to pick her up (I've asked her to stop because L is getting too big and I don't want her to get hurt.) and she actually snapped. I immediately said no and put her in her crate (we don't use it for punishment but I wasn't sure what to do!)...she is by far not my first dog, but I guess we didn't have this problem with our others. Lexi is a sweetie and a great dog, but I'm not interested in the snappiness!!

[bhunt87]

I will let the other more experienced ones chime in but how old is your daughter???? I've read on her numerous times that both the dog and kids should be taught to respect each others space, which by bothering her while she was sleeping no matter what for, was invading it, and don't take that wrong I in no way condone it but it sounds like she unintentionally provoked her but again that's just going off of what I have read. I have a 6 year old. And I've been teaching her never stand over her always approach from the side and never try taking anything away from her. Kids move in a way that dogs don't understand fully and that is how they communicate, body language. She also needs to see your daughter as an alpha not an equal.

[bhunt87]

Oh I see, she is 9 I missed that earlier

[Thoenix]

Pup this young will probably do really well with trade me games and being fed by hand. Carry her kibble in a baggie in your pocket and feed her by hand little bits at a time for good behaviour. Have your daughter do the same. This teaches your pup that good things come from hands and hands aren't scary takers of stuff. Also, practise giving her something, taking it, giving her a treat or another even more awesome something. You need to teach her that having things taken away isn't scary and that good things follow that. I wouldn't feed her out of a bowl at all for awhile.

Your daughter needs to be supervised 100% of the time when in the pup's presence until you can trust her not to touch the dog in a way you don't want. That's not something you can negotiate on at all.

[Mommy to Zeus]

Pup this young will probably do really well with trade me games and being fed by hand. Carry her kibble in a baggie in your pocket and feed her by hand little bits at a time for good behaviour. Have your daughter do the same. This teaches your pup that good things come from hands and hands aren't scary takers of stuff. Also, practise giving her something, taking it, giving her a treat or another even more awesome something. You need to teach her that having things taken away isn't scary and that good things follow that. I wouldn't feed her out of a bowl at all for awhile.

Your daughter needs to be supervised 100% of the time when in the pup's presence until you can trust her not to touch the dog in a way you don't want. That's not something you can negotiate on at all.

Yes, trading games are great. When you take something, give her something even better. While she's eating, you can have your daughter casually walk by and drop something yummy into her bowl also.

You also need to teach your daughter to stay away from her while she is sleeping or enjoying a valuable resource (like a bone).

[SuzanneRM82]

We are having the same issues with our daughter and pup. Daughter is 4, pup is 4 months, and daughter likes to randomly pester him (usually play with his ears) when he is napping, or she likes to try to hug his face. I stay after her about that stuff, but she still manages to sneak past me on occasion. He's a total sweetheart, because if I were a dog I'd have, at the very least, eaten all her shoes by now for being a pest lol. She's finally starting to catch on that touching the dog while he's napping or chowing on his bone are major no-nos.

[LolaKate]

Let me preface by saying a couple of things: one, we are first time dane owners and first time inside dog owners, and secondly that we have no idea what we are doing and thus is why we come here and ask questions.

But, Lola Kate's 3 months birthday was today. We have encountered some of the same things I think and I even posted about it a couple of weeks back when we started to see it. Lola likes to talk back primarily when she is asleep and needs to be moved, whether that is from the couch to her kennel, couch to big people bed, or just moved over in the big people bed so that there is some room for one of us to lay down. It isn't the normal sweet puppy want to play with you and chase you around the yard growl, its like a deep chested angry rumble noise. No snapping attached, just a very plain warning. We did some looking into what we should do and ultimately made the decision that this was one of the egregious offense that results in her getting thumped. It has seemed to help over the past two weeks, though it still occurs. She still has not snapped at us, but seems to now know that her growling in that way is not appropriate or accepted. We are always open to other suggestions, but that is what we came up with and we Just wanted to put it on the table for you to kick around as well. If you come up with something else that seems to work please let us know.

She has only done it once, and it was over the very first raw beef bone we gave her about a week ago. She got thumped, and it never happened again though we have intentionally taken the bone many times now to try and prevent any resource guarding behavior.

We learned a couple of days ago about the "leave it" game with a high value treat and low value treat and we are going to start that tomorrow. I think it also might work in the same sense for moving her or whatever else but we will see.

As far as ear and tail pulling, we implemented the suggestion from the very good "K9 boot camp" article. As frequently as we think about it we will roll her onto her back while she is in our lap or on the couch and began pulling each foot, her tail, her ears, rubbing her belly, touching her nose, etc, and saying "this is my foot, this is my belly, this is my nose, this is my tail" etc. I believe it works, as we have not had any negative reactions to her being pulled on or messed with other than the aforementioned sleeping thing. (She's quite the diva when she's asleep)

[Anna N' Hamish]

Let me preface by saying a couple of things: one, we are first time dane owners and first time inside dog owners, and secondly that we have no idea what we are doing and thus is why we come here and ask questions.

But, Lola Kate's 3 months birthday was today. We have encountered some of the same things I think and I even posted about it a couple of weeks back when we started to see it. Lola likes to talk back primarily when she is asleep and needs to be moved, whether that is from the couch to her kennel, couch to big people bed, or just moved over in the big people bed so that there is some room for one of us to lay down. It isn't the normal sweet puppy want to play with you and chase you around the yard growl, its like a deep chested angry rumble noise. No snapping attached, just a very plain warning. We did some looking into what we should do and ultimately made the decision that this was one of the egregious offense that results in her getting thumped. It has seemed to help over the past two weeks, though it still occurs. She still has not snapped at us, but seems to now know that her growling in that way is not appropriate or accepted. We are always open to other suggestions, but that is what we came up with and we Just wanted to put it on the table for you to kick around as well. If you come up with something else that seems to work please let us know.

She has only done it once, and it was over the very first raw beef bone we gave her about a week ago. She got thumped, and it never happened again though we have intentionally taken the bone many times now to try and prevent any resource guarding behavior.

We learned a couple of days ago about the "leave it" game with a high value treat and low value treat and we are going to start that tomorrow. I think it also might work in the same sense for moving her or whatever else but we will see.

As far as ear and tail pulling, we implemented the suggestion from the very good "K9 boot camp" article. As frequently as we think about it we will roll her onto her back while she is in our lap or on the couch and began pulling each foot, her tail, her ears, rubbing her belly, touching her nose, etc, and saying "this is my foot, this is my belly, this is my nose, this is my tail" etc. I believe it works, as we have not had any negative reactions to her being pulled on or messed with other than the aforementioned sleeping thing. (She's quite the diva when she's asleep)

Please do not thump your dog. Danes (like most dogs) respond best to positive reinforcement. Also, regarding the ear and tail pulling, why do you need to be able to pull her tail and ears? There is no need. Get her used to having her teeth looked at, ears looked at, feet touched etc by sitting down with her (not rolling her over aka Alpha Roll) and as you touch her feet, ears, teeth etc give her lots of praise and lots of yummy treats. Having these parts of her body touched should be an aewsome experience, not something that is forced upon her by rolling her onto her back.

[LolaKate]

Please do not thump your dog. Danes (like most dogs) respond best to positive reinforcement. Also, regarding the ear and tail pulling, why do you need to be able to pull her tail and ears? There is no need. Get her used to having her teeth looked at, ears looked at, feet touched etc by sitting down with her (not rolling her over aka Alpha Roll) and as you touch her feet, ears, teeth etc give her lots of praise and lots of yummy treats. Having these parts of her body touched should be an aewsome experience, not something that is forced upon her by rolling her onto her back.

We have a large extended family and while I would like to think we can always be in direct control of every situation involving Lola, the reality is that we cannot. The kids are not ours and we do not have the opportunity to bring them up in the correct way and teach them about being respectful of dogs and their space. However, we do have the opportunity to teach Lola on a daily basis and, in our opinion, it is then on our shoulders to try and teach her to not react negatively to a situation she will invariably experience. I am not saying Lola would not be justified in nipping someone who came up and yanked her tail, quite the opposite; I feel she would be absolutely justified. However, the reality is that there is quite the dual standard in regards to dogs and their sizes. When a 100 plus pound dog take a nip at any child, regardless of the circumstances, the dog will be blamed and labeled as being "dangerous" and therefore subject to all kinds of applicable state and local laws. At least around these parts. We aren't willing to take that chance. That is why we go through the ritual with Lola. It isn't forced on her, laying on her back and having her tummy rubbed is pretty much her favorite thing (maybe aside from peanut butters) and has been known to put a sleepy Lola to sleep on occasion.

Like was mentioned, this is our first go at this, and are open to all suggestions and therefore appreciate your input. Given the circumstances that generate Lola's aggressive growl, I am not sure how that could be reworked into a positive reward but certainly will give it more thought.

Regardless, I don't want to get off on a side track and detract from the answer of the OP's questions.

[Charlene]

the reality is that we cannot.

then you aren't trying hard enough. crate her or put her in a separate room when you can't be watching her when kids are around.

thumping your dog to discipline a growl will only lead to worse things. you suppress a growl and your dog learns growling is bad and if she is particularly annoyed with whatever is going on, she'll go right to the bite.

i fail to understand why anybody thinks "thumping" is ok. i just have to ask...where do you thump her? i hope it isn't her nose. wherever it is, i hope you will take what has been posted to heart and stop doing it.

there is no reason, let me repeat that, NO reason to EVER hit (or thump) a dog. period!

[ChickyPop]

It sounds to me that the adults, children and dogs need to learn boundaries and respect for each other. This is where crate training is incredibly helpful too. Crate the pups when it is nap time and the crates are absolutely off limits with no interruptions. My dogs now go in & out of their crates on their own to nap, chew on bones or with new/favorite toys and we leave them alone when they do. If we have to interrupt them or wake them up we do so by talking to them, with commands or luring them out with a higher value treat or object, but never, do I reach in their crates. Dogs are dangerous enough on their own, but once you factor in the enormity of a Dane it could get scary very quickly. We post Dane related injuries all the time and most the time they are humorous stories. I've gone to work with 2 busted lips, one black eye, a bruised cheek, a concussion, and a paw print bruise on my upper chest. Those were just the visible injuries. We've all been knocked around more times than we can count by healthy, happy, sweet tempered puppies. They are like human babies - they just don't know better yet. Please be patient

[ouesi]

Safe family dogs are dogs who have good impulse control, who have bite inhibition, and who TRUST their humans. You don't gain trust through force, especially not random force.

I'm just going to copy and paste my desensitization vs. sensitization spiel
There is a subtle but significant difference between desensitization and sensitization. DEsensitization creates that affable, tolerant, dog who sees annoyances as anomalies. Sensitization creates a "straw that broke the camel's back" type scenario.

Sensitization is where repeated exposure to something seemingly minor bubbles up in to major annoyance. Think co-worker in a meeting innocently clicking his pen. Click-click. Click-click. Click-click. Quiet room except for the random click-clicks. Some people in the room don't even notice it. Some people find it annoying, might even give the click-clicker a dirty look.
But take the high strung person having a bad day and you just might get to see that person suddenly freak out over a click and yell at the click-clicker to knock it off before he throws the pen out the window. I'm sure folks are familiar with sensitization.

Sensitization is what turns something slightly annoying in to a major big deal.
You don't get a dog used to having their ears pulled by pulling the ears. You just make the dog more irritated by ear pulling - sometimes to the point that the dog will snap at the hand reaching anywhere near the head.

Likewise, if you try to get a dog used to having his bone messed with by messing with his bone, it could very likely create sensitization. A dog who puts up with it, puts up with it, puts up with it, until one day he's just had enough of his food being messed with and snaps. You know, those "out of the blue" bites?

DEsensitization however, is when you pair a milder version of an unpleasant stimulus with a something the dog really likes. For example, if I wanted to desensitize a dog to getting his nails clipped, I would touch the clippers to the paw then treat. Repeat until the dog is anticipating the treat at being touched. Now I can put the clippers on a nail. Repeat the same process. Then up the ante to slight pressure as if I was going to clip but not all the way. Etc., etc.

Or with resource guarding for example, walk up to the food bowl (annoying) and drop a higher value tidbit in to the bowl and walk away (pleasant). The key is for the pleasant to be more pleasant than the annoying is annoying. With a bone, just leave the dog alone! I don't want someone hovering over me if I'm eating a bowl of Ben and Jerry's, why would a dog? If you *must* take something away like if it's dangerous for the dog to have, you teach a drop cue first with lower value goodies. But even without the drop cue, if you haven't been bugging the dog by taking things away all the time, he's much less likely to react the one time you do have to step in and take it away.

So it's also important to make sure that those annoyances are rare. It's kind of like the difference between preparing for a famine by starving yourself (so you're used to starving) or preparing for a famine by packing on the pounds (so when you do starve you have resources on hand to deal with it).
In terms of safe family dogs, instead of packing on the pounds, you build up tons and tons of pleasant, positive experiences, so that when the unexpected unpleasant one pops up, the dog has enough pleasant experiences built up to view it as an anomaly, not something to defend against.

It's important to note though. Even thoroughly desensitized dogs are not robots.
Dogs, just like humans, have off days. I'm normally a mellow person, but say I'm having a bad morning, I'm running behind, maybe I'm nursing a cold, not feeling well, distracted, worried about something, and my darling husband accidentally sets a heavy box down on my foot. Normally I'd be cool, but in this case I might snap at him.
Dogs have that sort of moment too.

This is where impulse control and bite inhibition come in.
A dog who has impulse control will be able to check himself and not overreact to the situation. A dog with bite inhibition will do far less damage even if reacting.

[bhunt87]

Quesi loved the post!!

[Greenmagick]

YES!!!! to Ouesi's post.

This is a VERY VERY important distinction, especially when you have youngsters.

Honestly, I agree, there are going to be times when things happen you dont mean to. I will not live with my house on lock down as its stressful for all involved. However, I work very hard to make sure my dogs trust my children, my children know how to interact with the dogs, and that the dogs know to look to ME for help.

[Greenmagick]

Definitely check out the links Ouesi provided. There are two videos here that are specifically on dogs and kids as well...

http://dolforum.com/forum/blog.php?b=382