5 month old behaviors.... are they normal?

[tlambertsen]

Sophie is a healthy 5 month old pure dane who is healthy (recently finishing last round of shots and vet evaluation) and beautiful. It appears that she is wrapping up her teething process and has a new beautiful set of chompers! I've got a constellation of behaviors I'm slightly concerned about that I will list and see what the community says about them. I should note that we immediately enrolled Sophie in Puppy Kindergarten and basic obedience which she recently graduated from .Here are my concerns.....
1. She bites - a lot! it is not uncommon for her to be trailing behind me with her teeth firmly planted on my back pocket. She is not food aggressive but I can't even get down on the floor with her without my forearm getting mouthed. She's not a hard biter but can't keep things out of her mouth.
2. She is constantly up on the counters! I've tried keeping the counters clean but if there is food out, it's gone. My 5 year old twins don't like it when their dinner dissapears!
3. Can't keep her in the back yard. We have a 4 foot chain link fence that she climbs like a ladder. She doesn't leave the yard but i'm scared for her when she gets heavier.
4. She isn't aggressive but she looks aggressive, if I ignore/correct/scold/dominate - she bares her teeth at me. not good. She doesn't really do this with my wife or kids but for them she will roll over onto her back and throw punches with her paws (funny to watch but enraging when experiencing).
O.k. - there you have it, We give her exercise, limit the crate time, and give her chew toy's. She's got pleanty of food and water, lots of LOVE!
So what's up with this?

[ChaoticLiving]

Sophie is a healthy 5 month old pure dane who is healthy (recently finishing last round of shots and vet evaluation) and beautiful. It appears that she is wrapping up her teething process and has a new beautiful set of chompers! I've got a constellation of behaviors I'm slightly concerned about that I will list and see what the community says about them. I should note that we immediately enrolled Sophie in Puppy Kindergarten and basic obedience which she recently graduated from .Here are my concerns.....
1. She bites - a lot! it is not uncommon for her to be trailing behind me with her teeth firmly planted on my back pocket. She is not food aggressive but I can't even get down on the floor with her without my forearm getting mouthed. She's not a hard biter but can't keep things out of her mouth.
2. She is constantly up on the counters! I've tried keeping the counters clean but if there is food out, it's gone. My 5 year old twins don't like it when their dinner dissapears!
3. Can't keep her in the back yard. We have a 4 foot chain link fence that she climbs like a ladder. She doesn't leave the yard but i'm scared for her when she gets heavier.
4. She isn't aggressive but she looks aggressive, if I ignore/correct/scold/dominate - she bares her teeth at me. not good. She doesn't really do this with my wife or kids but for them she will roll over onto her back and throw punches with her paws (funny to watch but enraging when experiencing).
O.k. - there you have it, We give her exercise, limit the crate time, and give her chew toy's. She's got pleanty of food and water, lots of LOVE!
So what's up with this?

Bubbles is also 5 months old and does many of the same things. The most disturbing to me is that when we ignore/correct/scold/dominate, she doesn't bare her teeth, but she growls and comes back stronger. I think it's a play growl and she thinks we're just playing rough, but it really bothers me. She doesn't bite hard, but she can't stop the alligator jaws!

She's also very mouthy and I keep an eagle eye on her as far as counters/dining table go, or our dinner is gone as well. She likes ankles (bottoms of jeans) and wrists (cuffs of sweatshirts) more than pockets, but she does like to bite my 10 year old daughter's pants pockets. She really, really wants my daughter to play with her like another puppy and can pester her like crazy, often scratching her quite painfully. Luckily, they have lots of good times too, and my daughter loves her to death.

Bubbles has also been in puppy kindergarten, and has several commands that she does very well, including "come". She also gets a lot of free run-around time in our two acre yard, and is hardly crated at all (maybe averages an hour a day).

So I don't know if it's normal or not - this is my first dane (besides the ones we had when I was a kid), but Bubbles is like Sophie. You didn't happen to get her in TN, did you?

[Greenmagick]

What do you mean by ignore? By correct? By scold? By dominate? Those are all very different things. She bares her teeth at you for turning your back or ignoring? is it a true baring of the teeth or a open mouth bitchy bark?

[Quincy's Slave]

Wow I'm looking forward to the replies on this thread. We're having some of these issues at 11 weeks.

[Greenmagick]

Wow I'm looking forward to the replies on this thread. We're having some of these issues at 11 weeks.

Most of these issues are normal puppy antics that need to managed, pretty simple.

The only one that could be bad is the baring teeth but we need more info on that

[Jehn]

Most of these issues are normal puppy antics that need to managed, pretty simple.

The only one that could be bad is the baring teeth but we need more info on that

I agree with that. Also, I have a question about the fence climbing. How long is she out there before she starts climbing? Are you out there with her? I never leave Ludo out in the yard longer than 5 minutes unsupervised(he's 6 months old now), but he's never tried to escape...knock on wood!

[Meatos]

All very normal annoying puppy stuff. Manage, manage, manage. Chew toys and love aren't going to create a dream puppy. It's chew toys, love, management, consistent training, and TIME. The management and training side of things requires a bit of know-how.

You'll get 1000 different responses on this stuff, but my advice would be to bring a trainer in (especially to help you figure out the "teeth baring" thing). Call the people you did puppy classes with and see if they can do a private session. This is stuff that can be cleared up in one session with a trainer and with time/consistency from you.

On the other hand...congratulations, you have a VERY food-motivated dog who is also VERY high energy! This bodes well for you in all aspects of training. These are two of the qualities I love most in a puppy because they learn the fastest, even if they piss you off sometimes. I know, easy to say when it's not my puppy, but I've been there.

[tlambertsen]

Thank you for the responses everyone! Sophies fence climbing happens when she is in the back yard and thinks we are hanging out in the front (an example if she hears one of us cooking on the grill or getting something out of a car). I have to say she's so smart, if she's in the back yard - which really is not that often - and wants in, she has figured out how to put a paw on the sliding door and push it open! It could be SA type issues as she is typically with someone and not in a kennel for long periods of time or away from family much. Her snarling seems to be when she wants to play or I stop her from jumping up on me, not when she's upset about anything . The methods I'm trying to employ are as follows:
Ignore - if she bites I stop playing and turn my back on her, once she calms down I re-engage, if she does something good I praise.
Correct - I try to replace behavior, a lot of times I will give her something else to chew on, change a game, or get the treats out and do obedience.
Scold - I will tell her "NO BITE!" if she bites or "OFF!" if she jumps up
Dominate - One of the things our vet encourages us to do is if she is trying to dominate, hold her down and don't let go until she calms down and relaxes. Now, with a 60+ pound dog I have to literally strattle her and restrain her. It looks worse than it is because I don't restrict her breathing or attack her (picture a giant cuddle). This works because she calms down and then behaves a lot better, but only for a while.

[Jehn]

Dominate - One of the things our vet encourages us to do is if she is trying to dominate, hold her down and don't let go until she calms down and relaxes. Now, with a 60+ pound dog I have to literally strattle her and restrain her. It looks worse than it is because I don't restrict her breathing or attack her (picture a giant cuddle). This works because she calms down and then behaves a lot better, but only for a while.

That is the only thing I disagree with. When Ludo is going nutso and won't calm down I change the tone of my voice to almost a sing songy whisper. Really long drawn out words in a calming tone and soft gentle strokes from his head to his rear. This instantly calms him down and it's easy to refocus him on what we're trying to do. From there I can squeeze in some more training, get him to lie down on is bed for some rest or snuggle with him.

[LoveMyJax]

That is the only thing I disagree with. When Ludo is going nutso and won't calm down I change the tone of my voice to almost a sing songy whisper. Really long drawn out words in a calming tone and soft gentle strokes from his head to his rear. This instantly calms him down and it's easy to refocus him on what we're trying to do. From there I can squeeze in some more training, get him to lie down on is bed for some rest or snuggle with him.

This is a good point. It wasn't too long ago that I realized that I sometimes got a better response with Jax if I used a calm, lower, matter of fact voice. Instead of a firm "no" (actually, "no, no, no, come on Jax!..." lol), I used a low, soft "Jax, uh-uh." and it worked better. I found myself saying "thank you" because he responds so well to it. (sometimes!)

OP - I would skip the "dominate" technique...it's out-dated advice, and as you can see, is really only giving you temporary obedience.

[ChaoticLiving]

Thank you for the responses everyone! Sophies fence climbing happens when she is in the back yard and thinks we are hanging out in the front (an example if she hears one of us cooking on the grill or getting something out of a car). I have to say she's so smart, if she's in the back yard - which really is not that often - and wants in, she has figured out how to put a paw on the sliding door and push it open! It could be SA type issues as she is typically with someone and not in a kennel for long periods of time or away from family much. Her snarling seems to be when she wants to play or I stop her from jumping up on me, not when she's upset about anything . The methods I'm trying to employ are as follows:
Ignore - if she bites I stop playing and turn my back on her, once she calms down I re-engage, if she does something good I praise.
Correct - I try to replace behavior, a lot of times I will give her something else to chew on, change a game, or get the treats out and do obedience.
Scold - I will tell her "NO BITE!" if she bites or "OFF!" if she jumps up
Dominate - One of the things our vet encourages us to do is if she is trying to dominate, hold her down and don't let go until she calms down and relaxes. Now, with a 60+ pound dog I have to literally strattle her and restrain her. It looks worse than it is because I don't restrict her breathing or attack her (picture a giant cuddle). This works because she calms down and then behaves a lot better, but only for a while.

I do those exact same things except for the dominate one. Instead of holding her down, I scruff her - gently - usually to stop her from jumping on and nipping at my daughter. I heard (I think it was on this site, actually), that scruffing like that is how the mom dog would keep a puppy from doing what it's not supposed to do.

I have to say that the ignore doesn't work all that well, because Bubbles will just up the ante if we ignore her. She'll bite at our butts, jump up on our backs (scratching them with her claws), and generally try to engage us. I can ignore it for the most part, and she doesn't try it as much with me anymore. But my daughter really gets the rough end of the deal if she tries to ignore Bubbles. I usually end up putting a leash on Bubbles at that point, so that I can step on it and my daughter can move out of range when Bubbles gets like that. Then she comes back to try again when Bubbles seems calmer.

Hopefully this way the behavior will slowly extinguish.

[Erin B.]

I have to say that the ignore doesn't work all that well, because Bubbles will just up the ante if we ignore her. She'll bite at our butts, jump up on our backs (scratching them with her claws), and generally try to engage us. I can ignore it for the most part, and she doesn't try it as much with me anymore. But my daughter really gets the rough end of the deal if she tries to ignore Bubbles. I usually end up putting a leash on Bubbles at that point, so that I can step on it and my daughter can move out of range when Bubbles gets like that. Then she comes back to try again when Bubbles seems calmer.

Hopefully this way the behavior will slowly extinguish.

Gelsi sometimes does this when we totally turn our backs on her, if she is super wound up already. Even when she was small, she would jump up, bite our elbows and shoulders. Now, if she's THAT fired up, we both just leave the room. Like, my roommate will go outside and I will go in the bathroom and shut the door. It totally throws her. She stands around like "what the...?" We usually do it for about 5 minutes but sometimes I peek through the door and if she calms down before that I come back out. So far it's worked. I will say Gelsi is a little more spoiled than my other two, I've been way softer on her because we lost my last pup, Giska, so young. Giska, for instance, would have never DREAMED of jumping on our backs and biting our elbows! (But she would give us a lecture in Roo-roo if we asked her to get out of the kitchen lol).
Different pups require different techniques, so I agree with finding a trainer to help you discover what works best. Gelsi had a puppy class and a basic class, and I have to say at times that basic class saved my sanity!

[Meatos]

It baffles me why vets give out training advice. I don't dispense veterinary meds and do tell people to go to the vet, so why don't vets send people to trainers?

Biting is an attention-seeking behaviour. The only thing that will reinforce the NO biting is to teach her that all the fun stops when she mouths. Say "too bad" and walk out of the room, and close the door. Plain and simple. Be consistent with this, and you'll have a puppy who refuses to bite so that you will keep playing with her.

[LoveMyJax]

Biting is an attention-seeking behaviour. The only thing that will reinforce the NO biting is to teach her that all the fun stops when she mouths. Say "too bad" and walk out of the room, and close the door. Plain and simple. Be consistent with this, and you'll have a puppy who refuses to bite so that you will keep playing with her.

This is what finally saved me. Jax was very nipping even at 6 months and he's still mouthy occassionally. I immediately walked away from him, over and over again. He finally figured it after a lot of repetition and consistency.

[oubball14]

Ignoring is so hard and gets harder every time you give in. Just remember to be consistent and they will catch on. Keebler has gotten to the point that I just have to glance to the left or right and he knows he went too far and he needs to go lie down. I'll tell him he's a good boy once he lies down. It was hard in the beginning and I would literally have to stand up from where I was, walk away and close a door...but it didn't take too long to get where we are now.