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  • #16
    RE: K-9 Military School

    That's interesting about the jogging and possible relation to bloat. A recent study was done in this country concerning bloat, but I don't believe factors such as jogging and such were included.

    That's upsetting because many people use jogging and motorized dog walkers to condition their show dogs. And of course many other just like to have their dogs jog with them.



    • #17
      RE: K-9 Military School

      I know MP.
      Now, this is NOT published evidence. It is merely an advise from my vet who was a majician in diagnosing and operating my Dobermann six years ago.
      So, whatever this man says about bloat I BELIEVE IT!
      He says that bloat is due to stomach tendons laxity as dobeys and danes are long and lean. When you start moving the dog with a rythm the whole stuff inside their bellies could swing or something of the sort.
      He even cautions me against going down the stairs (up is fine of course).
      I was actually quite surprised at seeing that many jogged their danes. I avoid it and stick to throw and fetch type of games (or the famous rope and ball).
      Now you've got me curious and I will surely go back to him and ask whether there is any sort of evidence or is it just his personal experience.
      Will let u know if u want


      • #18
        RE: K-9 Military School

        At what age should you start this training? I understand you should always work with your Dane, however, when should you start a structured training program? Tyla, my dane, is only 7 weeks old, and in my opinion, needs all the love and attention she can get right now. We do work on basic commands, sit, down, etc. I am currently working on trying to housetrain her and to get her to eat her meal, so I don't see how I can have her sit at the door before we go out, because if I wait for that then I will be cleaning pee up off the carpet and if I make her sit before she eats....well then she just won't eat.

        I need some I on the right track for the moment? Should I continue as I am doing and work on building up to the other stuff when she is a little older? I want to train her properly now so that there and no (ok, I'll be realistic, little) problems when she is older.

        Thanks for all the wonderful discussion,
        Jean & Tyla


        • #19
          RE: K-9 Military School

          Jean, I think there are probably some things on the list that you can do successfully with a pup so young, maybe #1,#2,some parts of #4,#5, and #8. I would not expect too much at this time because you are doing socializing and housetraining. Work slow because your pup is truly a baby. As you pup begins to get older, you can add the other #'s on the list slowly. Don't expect perfection overnight. It takes time and practice to train a dog properly. Just my opinion.


          • #20
            RE: K-9 Military School

            Thanks! I just get somewhat confused since reading the forum. I need to realize I have an awesome, family PET and not a show dog or a dog that I wish to breed. (This is by choice) Tyla was purchased to be part of our family. It was my husband's solution to having another child since our "baby" is 15!

            Again, I am so grateful I found this board early on, I think Tyla and I will both benefit. As soon as I get my pictures, I will post them of my "baby"!!



            • #21
              RE: K-9 Military School

              Thank you, Lital. I certainly look forward to hearing more about his experiences with bloat.



              • #22
                RE: K-9 Military School

                Jean, you are only lucky to have the forum's support and advise since moment one. And this is from someone who has a Dane for over a year and only joined in two days ago.
                Good luck with Tyla, and be STRONG. Dane pups are sooooo cute, it is sometimes difficult to be anything but cuddly with them.


                • #23
                  RE: K-9 Military School / Boot Camp Blues

                  Hi everyone,
                  I am sorry if I am being a pain in the neck bothering everybody with George's behaviour. But I feel we need some clarifications on how to go on.
                  We started boot camp three days ago. And almost all is well. However, some fear issues are coming out which, at this point, I believe may be related to George's trauma history (maybe I am going too psychological on him, in which case just tell me to shut up ).
                  Our eye contact sessions are becoming a real problem. George just acts terrified! he sits there squirming, eyes dilated, incessantly offering me his paw, and SHAKING all over!. If he is not on the leash he escapes to his bed. If he is, the moment I allow him to stop looking at me (I have to restrain his head with both hands), he will bury it between my knees and tremble.
                  We need to do the sessions before we go out, otherwise he will retreat to his bed. I am pretty sure this is fear and not rebellion.
                  So the questions are:
                  1. What am I actually telling him, in dog language, that makes him so afraid?
                  2. What can I do to reduce the stress? Last session I used biscuits held in front of my nose (very serious pack leader ) and he would look at me, when he would start trembling I gave him the biscuit and we started again with another one. He consumed five biscuits in three minutes (two a minute, an achievement!). Is this correct behaviour on my behalf? otherwise how do I make him sit and accept eye contact?
                  Another thing is the food ritual: he refuses it. Ever since we got home from hospital and went through our pre-food medication administration the dog retreats to his bed when I start messing around with the food and only comes out when I am actually walking with the bowl in my hand towards the place where I feed him. Since this is "good" doggy behaviour I never corrected him. Now that I tried to do the food ritual I see that he still won't come to my command or participate in it. And then again the question: do I leave him at that, blessing my luck he is not all over me with food? or should I regard it as part of his problem and try to treat it? in this latter case, how?
                  The detailed story of George is in the postings on "is it fear or aggression?". I recognise that I underestimated the entity of what he went through and the effects on him. A word in my defense: first of all, we were both exhausted, happy to be alive, and busy with physical rehabilitation. Second, he is still a happy playful and tender dog, so these "traits" kind of go under a very healthy facade.
                  however, at this point I would really like to correct as much of this issue as possible. So any help would be more than welcome!
                  Thanks again to you all

                  PS - I have yet to figure out how this forum operates so I hope posting this question here and not under "fear or aggression" is correct, if not, please tell me.


                  • #24
                    RE: K-9 Military School

                    I'm glad you asked about when to start this. Our baby, Electra, is 8 1/2 weeks old, and we, too are trying to get her housetrained and feeding properly before we move on to bigger and better things. Our main problem, now, is getting her to come to us. She knows if we're looking for her to crate or go outside, and she'll take off!


                    • #25
                      RE: K-9 Military School

                      Regarding K-9 Military School (K-9 Boot Camp)

                      I hope no one minds that I'm resurecting this thread, but since it came up on another thread I'd thought I'd ask my question here.

                      As I understand it, this type of training is generally good for all dogs. Asserts your position in their eyes, keeps them focused on you, great obedience refresher, excellent bonding time, etc. etc.

                      Do you think this type of training is good for dogs that already have confidence issues? Could it be detrimental to them?

                      Appreciate any input.


                      • #26
                        RE: K-9 Military School

                        Cindy, I used this on my EZ. She was a breeder reclaim and had been neglected by her original owners. After a short time of socialization and mending at home in Michigan, with her breeder (about a month) she came home to live with us. Needless to say, although she was an absolute love, she did have a few issues. Little skittish, especially toward men, liked to bolt out the front door, very jumpy over loud noises(and with 2 kids, one who is hearing impaired, it is somtimes quite loud here). I also let alot of things slide and let her get away with things I normally wouldn't because she came from such a bad situation(felt sorry for her)She did lack confidence, would not approach new things and people, stuff like that. I used this and along with her basic obedience, EZ came out of her shell. I feel that between the boot camp and the OB training, it actually gave her confidence, because now she knew exactly what was expected of her. She now walks with her head up and her tail wagging(before her tail would be between her legs any time we walked out and saw people)The only problem I was not able to solve, is her tendancy to bolt. I do have to watch her like a hawk when the kids go in and out
                        , but we have made great strides. Before, if she would get out of the yard, or out the front door, I would have to play "cat and mouse" for hours. Now if she does get out, she generally runs around my front lawn, and doesn't go down the road, and I am able to give her a sit/down command and gather her up. We are still working on it, especially since the weather is finally better. I was happy with it because it allowed me to gain complete control in very little time.Our trainer actually gave her most improved student at her first OB class. I started using this and some skills Sandy Witzen suggested because she used to be very anxious during training. We just kept up with socialization and the training and it worked. It's like Day and Night.


                        • #27
                          Re K-9 Military School

                          I got Callie 2 months ago, she was 10 months old, I was her 4th owner (and last) and had no training at all. She really is a sweety full of personality. She's full of energy and stubborn at times. Reseached different training methods without much sucess. I've made some progress, she sits, lays down , is starting to stay and come and rides in the car well now. ALL I can say is THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!! This is going to work This is the best problem solving tool I'v ever run across. Callie starts school in the morning.


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Carolyn View Post
                            Military School is designed as a problem-solving tool. Some of the items will be used for the rest of the dog's life--paritcularly suggest the feeding regimen, possession, the song, and the roadwork. Other items will be done only until the dog understands his position in society.
                            When he graduates, release him from the items one at a time over a period of several weeks, watching for him to go back to his old ways. Many people send the dog to Military School one month in six as a preventative measure. If there is any part of Military School that is liable to get you bitten while you're doing it, DONT DO IT and GET HELP from a competent trainer.

                            1) Umbilical Cord: As much as possible when you are at home, keep the dog on leash and with you. Put a 6'leash on the dog, and attach the other end of the leash to a sturdy belt around your waist. Ignore the dog and go about your business. Having to constantly watch what you do and where you go will not only bond the dog to you, but will help make you important in his eyes.

                            2) Eye contact x 2: for up to 3 minutes twice a day, sit down with the dog sitting between your knees, and use a command such as Watch Me to get eye contact. If necessary, you might actually hold the dogs's face to get eye contact.

                            3) Obedience x 2: Twice a day, run quickly through an obedience session using whatever the dog knows how to do--sit, down, come, stay, heel: repeat as needed. Train for 5 minutes each session. Do NOT touch the dog to praicse him--DO use voice praise only.

                            4) Feed x 2: When food is left down for the dog to eat ad lib, the dog owns the food. Ownership is what dominance is all about, so we must take possession of the food. Feed the dog twice a day, in a confined area such as a crate or the bathroom.
                            Use a feeding ritual: ask him if he's hungry, ask him to help find his dish, to help find the food, ask him again if he's hungry, tell him to go to his area or get in his crate, give him the food. As soon as he's finished, or as soon as he turns away from his food, or if he doesnt begin eating immediately, take the dish away, throw away the food, and clean the dish. If the dog is not successful at eating (doesnt't eat his whole meal), give him half the regular amount at his next meal, until he is cleaning the bottom of the dish. A successful meal means he gets more at his next meal, until he is eating the amount that will keep him in optimum condition. The food must be high quality and low bulk. Water should be freely available all day. Give no treats in the food or by hand.
                            Dogs love rituals and you are teaching his body to get ready to eat when he hears the beginnning of the ritual.

                            5) Possession is 9/10 of the law: At least once a day, roll the dog over on the floor or on your lap, and handle him. Repeat the words "These are my ears", "This is my paw", "This is my muzzle", "This is my tail" as you handle him. If he struggles, express your annoyance with a growl(low intimidating voice)and a little (but firm) shake, and start again. Its important that the dog doesnt get away: then he has informed you that he owns his muzzle, and that cant be true. When he is compleately relaxed and accepts your ownership, say OK and release him.

                            6) Long Down-Stay: Do one 3 minute Down-Stay every day. You can watch TV but the dog must be in plain sight and you must be aware of him. He can roll over, go to sleep, and look annoyed or bored, but he cannot get up or walk away.

                            7) I'm-The-Mommy Down: At least once a day, just because you felt like it, tell the dog to lie down. When he does, use your voice ONLY to tell him he did a good job, say Okay, and walk away.

                            8) Music Soothes: Make up a little song which includes the dogs name, make eye contact and sing it to him at least once a day. It doesnt have to rhyme, but it should make you both laugh. This reminds both you and the dog that life isnt always going to be this hard, and you do want to be friends when your're done. Here'my song for my Giant Schnauzer Spider:
                            Itsy bitsy Spider ate the water spout, ate the kitchen chair and some sauerkraut, chased a cat and chewed her ball, went to bed and said "that's all"!

                            9) Bosshood is in the Eye of the Beholder: Consider life from the dog's point of view. He sleeps where he wants, he eats when he wants, he leads you around. Any wonder he gets the impression that he's the Boss?
                            Dont allow him to go through doors ahead of you. Dont allow him to go up or down stairs ahead of you. Dont allow him to lead you down hallways. Always position him so you are leading and he is following. If he's lying down, dont walk around him. Put your feet on the floor and shuffle right through him (you dont kick the dog, merely push him gently out of the way): make him think about where you are and what you're doing. When he orders you to let him out, take charge of going outside. Build a ritual around the door. Focus his attention on you: Do you want to go out? Go to the door? Want to go out? Sit. Down. Sit. Stay. Then open the door and order him out: Okay, go outside! You change the situaltion so you are in charge of it.
                            Keep the dog on the floor. Not on the couch, not on the chair, not halfway up the stairs surveying his domain, not in your lap, not on the car seat. On the floor. Dont leave the dog loose in the house or yard when you're not home. Free run of the house when the Boss isnt home allows the dog to fell powerful and in charge. Dont allow the dog to sleep on your bed, or on a child's bed. Dogs recognize the bed as a throne for the Boss.
                            If he sleeps away from you, however, he will think that you own the bedroom, but he owns the rest of the house. The dog should sleep in your bedroom. If you cant have him sleeping in your bedroom (allergies, for instance), confine him to his crate.

                            10) Work off Energy: Roadwork the dog 4 days a week. Start small, but work up to a mile for small dogs, 2 miles for medium dogs and 3 miles for large dogs. Many problems will disappear with no more effort than roadworking. You can jog with the dog, or ride a bike, or longe him with a flexilead, or use a motorised trike, or lend him to a jogger who's afraid of being mugged.
                            Note: try and do roadwork on soft ground (not concrete or pavement) and dont force exercise a Dane younger than 20 months.

                            11) Busy Hands Are Hppy Hands: If you want to pet the dog, he must first do pushups: sit, down, sit, down, sit, down, sit, down: then you can pet him for a count of 5 only. He never gets petted because he wants to be or because he demands it, only because you want to and he earns it. Then you pet him for only a moment, and turn away with him wanting more.

                            12) My Game, My Rules: Give the dog only one toy. If he wants to chase the toy, bring it to you and let you have it, throw it again. If he wont chase it, or wont give it to you, turn your back and walk away. He has two choices, he can play with you and the toy, or he can play with the toy alone. Do not , under any circumstances, play tug-of-war. When you can get the toy without chasing him or playing tug, pick it up and put it away.

                            13) Elimante Hormones: Have problem dogs neutered. Many problems will solve themselves with no more effort than this. Not only will the dog be healthier and easier to live with, but your life will be made simpler, and you eliminate the possibility of your problem dog producing more problem dogs.

                            And if someone knows who wrote this lovely piece, I would love to give them credit for it.............
                            Divine Acres Great Danes
                            This is a good thread and has sound advice, most of which I agree with.

                            I am just surprised it has gone this long without the detractors coming in to say it is outdated and potentially dangerous advice.
                            Needless to say I'd disagree with them, but like a certain part of the anatomy, everyone has an opinion whether they know what they are talking about or not.
                            It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. Theodore Roosevelt - April 23, 1910


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Vector View Post
                              This is a good thread and has sound advice, most of which I agree with.

                              I am just surprised it has gone this long without the detractors coming in to say it is outdated and potentially dangerous advice.
                              Needless to say I'd disagree with them, but like a certain part of the anatomy, everyone has an opinion whether they know what they are talking about or not.
                              Nowhere in this post does it say to use physical force to get your dog to do anything, and it does not promote the dominance theory - it just promotes the Nothing in Life is Free theory that every dog owner should put into practice. Therefore, there's no reason why anyone should have a problem with K9 Military School.

                              Harpy #3
                              Katie & Scarlett


                              • #30
                                A note about achieving eye contact, particularly with a fearful dog. I would NOT promote using your hands to make the dog look at you. This can cause more, not less, fear and/or anxiety. Instead, I have fantastic success by shaping the Watch Me command using something that motivates the dog. Typically this takes the form of a favorite treat (in very small quantities), but it can be anything that motivates the dog. Direct the dog to look at your eyes by luring him/her using the treat which is moved up towards your eyes. The INSTANT the dog makes eye contact, a verbal marker is given (e.g., "yes!"), and the dog gets the tiny treat. If this is repeated for just 3-5 min per day, the dog quickly links eye contact with Really Good Results and offers it more and more. Over a few days, the treat is held a bit further from your eyes but only eye contact is praised. Link the words "Watch Me" to this each time, and reward every successful attempt to make eye contact when you say "Watch Me". After a couple of days, use the command when the dog looks away and praise galore when eye contact is made. After a couple more days, give the command when the dog is further away and, again, praise galore when success achieved (& reinforce with luring or back up a step when needed).

                                In a very short time, your dog will come even from another room when you say Watch Me. And they love doing it. This technique has worked with my most timid and fearful dogs and with my more confident assertive dogs, and with countless dogs owned by others.