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  • Choker Collars

    I have been hearing a lot of conflicting opinions on the use of a choker collar during training. I have heard that it would be a beneficial tool to use while training your dog during walks. I have on the other hand heard that this type of training could be harsh or painful during such training. Any insights on this subject? Your replies would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

  • #2
    RE: Choker Collars

    Tom,
    I used one for a few months when I got my first dane, but he was a rescue, 1 and a half years old, and knew basically no commands. I decided to use it, but as soon as he learned the basic commands then I stopped. I wouldn't see a need to use one on a puppy, but some people might. You might find some people who are very against using one (one woman who had a few danes yelled at me for using it!) Good luck.

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    • #3
      RE: Choker Collars

      I didnt really care for the choke collar either, I wanted the halter collar. But our dane (4 months old) nor my husband cared for it. Everywhere we tried to go with him on a leash, except to go to the bathroom, he constantly pulled. We were in the pet store oneday, my husband suggested, while in the store we try one. He immediately stopped pulling. So we bought it and when ever we take him out somewhere we use it. They might not be the best way to go about the problem, but it is working for us. We now get to walk him instead of him draggin us!

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      • #4
        RE: Choker Collars

        [font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Apr-03-01 AT 08:20PM (PST)[/font][p]I am by no means an expert, but I have heard that choker collars are better than your regular ol' nylon or leather collar IF used correctly. Keep in mind this is what I have found through reading and not first hand knowledge, but it does make sense. For training purposes, when jerking quickly on the leash , using a regular collar focuses the all the pressure you exert on the leash in one place, the front of the windpipe or neck. This is also why a dog will hack and cough if he is walking at the end of his/her leash (this happens with chokers too). With choker collars, the pressure is distributed evenly. The improper way to use tany collar is to pull back on the leash for a period of time. This too will elicit the coughing and hacking and could cause some damage to the dog. For training purposes, a quick, taunt jerk of the leash is the proper way to use the collar. Keep in mind this is what I have read. I will use both types of collars (choker and nylon). However, when training the pup will have the choker on. Hope this helps.

        Also read "The Heel Command" under Training and Behavior posted by Crissy and Oliver. It doesn't talk about chokers, but it does give you good info. on how to train a dog without force "so to speak". Also, I recommend reading "A Guide to Understanding Dog Mind". It gives some great tips and info. on how to train a dog. I left the book in my classroom so I will post the author tomorrow.

        Chris

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        • #5
          RE: Choker Collars

          [font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Apr-03-01 AT 08:28PM (PST)[/font][p]If you go to www.flyingdogpress.com, you will find some wonderful information about different training collars and equipment. You should use whatever works best for you and your dog, and you'll know you've found what's right for you when you hardly have to correct your dog and spend most of your time praising. It is also important, no matter what you use, that you find an experienced person to help you learn to use it correctly.
          Slip (choke) training collars work great for some people, but are often not used properly, and end up being ineffective. The point of a training collar is to be able to administer a quick "pop" correction, not to get dragged down the street while your dog lunges and gags at the end of the collar. If you have an agressive puller, a slip collar will just tighten indefinitely (not healthy for your dog's neck and larynx) and will be too tight to allow you to give a clean correction (not effective for training). (Again, some people get great results with plain slip collars. More power to them. I've just had more success with other things.) I love martingale collars and prong collars, because they apply pressure evenly on the neck and do not tighten indefinitely. Isaac responds to my voice commands so well when he's wearing a prong collar I hardly have to "pop" it at all. We are both happy because training is easy--he's already behaving well and I just get to praise and reinforce his goodness. Once your dog gets the idea and mellows, a martingale is a nice choice. It's the same style as the prong, but made of cloth or nylon with no prongs.
          Lots of people have great success with head halter-type tools, but those have to be used carefully, in my opinion, so as not to overcorrect and hurt your dog's neck. They weren't a real option for me because Isaac and I are working towards the obedience ring, and I need to train with a collar and wean him off that.
          I don't think anything is really right or wrong--it's all about what works best for you and keeps you and your dog happy. Your dog should work for you because he's having a good time and he understands what's expected of him, not because he's afraid of being reprimanded or injured with scary equipment. Equipment just helps you make your expectations clear. If you are reprimanding or begging your dog constantly, you might have to reconsider your equipment.
          A friend of mine teaches obedience at Petsmart, and she says the curriculum there frowns on both slip and prong collars. They use strictly treat and praise motivation to teach, and instead of popping the collar to teach "heel," they have student handlers constantly turn and change directions so the dog earn to pay attention to the handler or get left in the dust. Sounds great to me, although I think clear corrections don't damage the dog's confidence any, they just help make your expectations clearer. Heaps of praise are better than any miracle tool. Whew--long post! Hope this helps. Good luck!

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          • #6
            RE: Choker Collars

            Thanks for the responses. I too feel the same way. What works best for you. My dog and I have bonded in a way that we are unseperateable. He does very well with both verbal and hand commands. However, when on walks, escpecially at 21 weeks old, he understands that when walking, it can not only be a way of excercise or enjoying the world around us, but it is also something that they earn to do. I started using the choker the first time I took him for a walk. Remind you, with the choker used correctly. It was almost as if the choker lead the way for him. If heeling incorrectly I would first use verbal commands, praise, and treat, and sometimes changing directions if he would pull. While using the collar and doing the mentioned training, he caught on very quickly. I rarely have to pop the leash. As soon as he gets a little ahead of me, he hears the the sound of the links tightening. Before it even gets tight, he stops at the sound of the collars chains. I am starting to wean him off of this type of collar, and it is working quiet well. However, he knows when it is time for his walk when the collar comes out. He gets so excited. I have been hearing to many horror stories in regard to dog, and human attacks. I know for a fact Magnum would never do such a thing. But when you are out from behind the fence, and you open not only yourself, but your companion to all the elements of the world while walking, anything can happen. It is our right as owners to ensure the safety of not only you and others around you, but your companion and best friend. So I too feel the same way. Many dogs respond in different ways to different methods of training. I would never treat my dog in any way that would endanger his life. However, I do believe in training equipment that enables to help teach proper behavior, if used in the proper way. That is the key word, "help". Not to rely on this type of collar solely. I am a firm believer in hand and verbal commands, redirect and praise, etc., but I feel during the training process, tools do support and help with teaching a dog to heel correctly. Thanks for the reponses. Leans and slobbers to you all.

            Tom

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            • #7
              Author of 'Understanding "Dog Mind"'

              The author of 'Understanding "Dog Mind"' is Bonnie Bergin. She pioneered the concept/techniques of "service dogs", which involoves a training program for dogs to assist the physically disabled in everyday tasks. It's a great book if you are going to do some training on your own or for understanding the behavior of your dog.

              Chris

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              • #8
                RE: Choker Collars

                Tom,
                Well the best advice I can give is read the book: "Good Owners, Great Dogs" by Brian Kilcommons. He suggests, and I use, the Babbara Woodhouse collar. Basically this is a metal choke with wide links that allow you to back-hook the collar so it functions like a normal collar for use on puppies. The noise and disturbance of the collar corrects the young ones, then as they age and get more "uppity" you can stop the back-clip and deliver your corrections through the standard choke.

                Basically you need to train under someone well experienced with REWARD technique, not abuse and shouting technique. If you work hard and consistently you will end up with a well trained dog. Read the archives here as well, there is a lot of info there.

                Joel

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                • #9
                  RE: Choker Collars

                  That's such a good suggestion, Joel. Although I do use a prong collar with Isaac, I often fasten the leash to both collar ends so there's no tightening at all. Just wearing the "business" collar is enough to convince him to listen well.

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                  • #10
                    RE: Choker Collars-Issac's mom

                    May I cut and past your response to a mastiff web site I visit?? There are a lot of newbie's there that constantly argue about collars and your post is very clear and informative. Thanks!

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                    • #11
                      Common sense . . .

                      As with any type of equipment, if used properly and humanely, it can be a benefit to the owner, the dog and people/animals the dog comes into contact with. Again, common sense plays a huge part in anything like this.

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                      • #12
                        RE: Common sense . . .

                        Tom
                        I use a No-Slip Humane collar. I was introduced to this type of collar a few years ago when I had my Greyhounds. It has worked wonders on all my dogs. The collar is made of nylon, adjustable (but has no buckles or clips) and designed to apply an even amount of presure around the dogs neck, but not enough to choak. also, the dog can not back out of the collar.

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                        • #13
                          RE: Choker Collars-Issac's mom

                          [font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Apr-04-01 AT 05:09PM (PST)[/font][p][font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Apr-04-01 AT 05:08*PM (PST)[/font]

                          Of course you can use my post--I'm pleased you think it's info worth repeating. Please fix my typo at the end--it should be "*learns* to pay attention" not "earns." :-) As an afterthought, I posted again and said I often hook my leash to both loops on the prong collar, so it doesn't tighten at all. I've found that to be a good way of weaning off the prong. Also, some people say martingale, some people say greyhound/sighthound collar, some people say no-choke humane collar--it's all the same good piece of equipment, and you can find beautiful ones at www.mrsbones.com/index2.htm. Also, one more reason I'm personally biased against head halter-type equipment is that uninformed people sometimes think it's a muzzle on a vicious dog. Sounds silly, I know, but I have seen people shy away from dogs wearing Gentle Leaders and say to their kids, "Don't pet that dog, honey. He will bite you!" Totally ridiculous, I know, but that's a terrible message for a big pup like a Dane (or a mastiff!) to receive when out in public. I think if you were already struggling with dominance and/or lunging problems, your dog seeing everyone run away in fear would only enforce that. JMHO--do whatever works for you and keeps everyone's tails wagging. :-)
                          Sally

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                          • #14
                            RE: Choker Collars-Issac's mom

                            [font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Apr-04-01 AT 05:16PM (PST)[/font][p]OK, my link to Mrs. Bones Decorative Pet Collars site isn't working right--something else comes up. If your computer can't find the site, backspace the rest of the info and try just www.mrsbones.com. The real site still exists, though, and I swear it's worth a minute of fiddling around if you're loking for a stylish buckle or martingale collar. Mrs. Bones uses gorgeous tapestry fabrics and will help you make anything Dane-size and tough. (No, I'm not a stockholder, just a happy customer!)

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