Male dane cautious of strangers?

[bbsherm]

Hi everyone. Looking for some insight here. Have had our male dane to the vet, and the last couple times he was very cautious of a particular vet tech-she was kinda loud, and would walk right up to him and stick her hand out. So Jasper would pull back and shy away from her, and even make a groaning sound like he was afraid. I kinda got annoyed because the tech made a huge issue out of how Jasper "needs socialization training" and I need to take him to a trainer because he's so dangerous. (Never mind the fact she said nothing about the 5 pound shitzu who ran at her and bit her heels, snapping and barking like crazy!)

Jasper has always been the one to stand back and assess people. (Molly runs right up and gets in everyone's face, never has been shy.) But we have seen that Jasper sometimes does not warm up to certain people right away, especially people who come at him. For example, some people he's never met come into my home, and he stands back for awhile, maybe will bark a couple times at them, and then eventually he works his way over to sniff them and say hello on his own terms, and then he's fine. Then they can pet him and whatever. When he barks at people we make him sit down behind us and stay, and we don't allow him to continue barking at guests. I get the feeling he is afraid of some people--it's not everyone, and no real reason why he takes to some more than others. (he loved my girlfriend right away, crawled right up on her lap!)

So since I feel like he is telling me he is afraid of something, I do not push him since I do not want him to panic and bite. He is the biggest lover with us and people he's comfortable with. We take him out to stores and for walks and expose him to as much as we can, and it has helped him be less fearful by seeing how Molly runs up to everyone.

Do you think this is something I need a professional for right away? I feel like he's telling me he's worried when he behaves that way, and we need to respect that and do what we can to make him comfortable. I feel like if I harshly discipline he will think there really is something to be fearful of with strangers. And honestly, I am ok with him being cautious of strangers, he is a wonderful guard dog for us. But the vet tech made me feel like an idiot in the waiting room, like I had this huge dangerous vicious dog who I was letting out of control! (Not to mention how NOTHING was said about the tiny dog running around yapping and nipping at everyone who passed!)

Are we handling this the right way, or should we be more pro-active and address it with a professional? Jasper is 1yr3mos and 150lbs, a big clumsy sweetheart.

[bbsherm]

Jasper watching the dog show, haha

[salstewart]

Its not like he growled at the vet tech?? I cant help you with the barking but I got annoyed reading this. Sounds to me like a "vet tech" on a power trip.

[ouesi]

Well, the way you describe it, IMO yes, the vet tech was being a jerk. You don't tell someone "you need to XYZ" unless they specifically ask for advice - which you have, so I will

I completely agree that correcting fearful behavior is a bad idea. However, you don't want to completely ignore it either. There's a great, short book by Patricia McConnel called "The Cautious Canine" - you may want to check it out. Fearful *can* escalate into aggressive behaviors. And its just a fact that an aggressive action by a 150# dane is going to have worse consequences than that of a Shih Tzu.

FWIW, I don't have that big of an issue with growling per se. Its the cause of the growling that should be addressed - in this case fear of new people. And yes, more exposure to strange people under controlled circumstances is a good start.

[kcornel4]

It sounds to me that this is not a big deal at all, unless it escalates to more aggressive behaviour. I think you are dealing with things in a good way, and I believe/have found that positive reinforcement, desensitization and shaping are far better approaches than punishment kinds of discipline.

Your story resonates with me: We have a fearful and anxious GD who gets really worried by people he doesn't know well who approach us. If they are calm and quiet he is standoffish and suspicious at first but ok. However our vet has a tech that has a rather effusive and animated way about her. She speaks loudly in a high, squeaky voice, literally jogs into the room, flaps her hands in the air when talking, and runs right up to dogs, immediately scratching their heads. Having observed her behaviour with other dogs, before she came in to attend to our dog for the first time, I took her aside, explained his issue and asked her to please try to appear quiet and relaxed, let him approach her and NOT to immediately reach out and scratch him on the head. She got all huffy puffy and said she had worked with animals for years and knew what she was doing.

SOOOOO...she jogged into the room, calling our dog's name in a high squeaky voice and flapping her arms. He shied away behind me, but she ran right up to him anyway and tried to scratch his head. He barked sharply once and sort of hopped at her, (not growling or attempting to bite). She gave us the same kind of 'dangerous dog/needs socializing' line.

I asked to speak to the vet. I explained our dog's problem, and described the tech's behaviour despite our cautions. We were perhaps very fortunate in that the vet had a dog with fear aggression problems and totally empathized. After a rather long conversation about our dog's issue and behaviours in general, he reassured us that he thought we were responsible dog owners, handling things in the right way. He also ensured that we never had that tech again, but one who was quiet, confident and got along well with our dog.

So I wouldn't let that experience get to you!

[Purple Raine]

Wish I had some advice for you but I have the exact opposite problem with Bambi, She is an Attention whore, she absolutely loves people... I don't think she has yet to meet a person she didn't like.. Just don't try walking in my house or on to our property without our knowledge.....Then you might have a problem...

[cailinarun]

I think you need to talk with your vet- because the tech's behavior was totally unprofessional! To me, it sounds like the tech is afraid of big dogs and your Jasper sensed it. Darwin is like that too. What we've done is work with an easy command and a friend command. These are on-leash commands. We practiced it by enlisting the help of a few friends- some who liked dogs and some who were afraid. All we did was walk up to them with Darwin on leash. As we approached with Darwin on leash, we'd use easy for people that were afraid of dogs. Darwin would generally growl or grumble and we'd have him sit while we shook hands with the person. We then used friend when we approached people who liked dogs (generally, Darwin already knew these people anyways). Basically, the goal was to teach him that he COULD be vocal, but that we expected him to sit while we greeted the person. Friends got to extend a hand to him while people we met with an easy command didn't. We also treated when he sat calmly (no growling/grumbling/growling, and no signs of stress such as raised hackles) when following the easy command (although Darwin not being food motivated, he generally refused the treat!).

You probably already know this, but SEVERAL of the trainers we worked with when dealing with Darwin's dog aggression on leash told us to NEVER reprimand a dog for growling- growling is YOUR warning that your dog isn't comfortable. If you remove the warning, then the dog may snap or bite first which is never a good situation!

HTHs

[gmac]

well...

I wasn't even there and heck -- the vet tech was pissing ME off! She's a tech, and unless she's getting paid to analyze and recommend training needs for all the clients that come into the clinic, I'd tell her boss that she is behaving in a way that is rude, unprofessional, and with a not-so-nice dog, fairly detrimental to her.

I would never, ever, allow someone to push right up and get in my dog's face like that. If need be, stand between her and your dog - maybe bare your teeth and growl at her little. I wonder if she would recommend more socialization for you??