Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

"The Perfect Dog"

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • "The Perfect Dog"

    I have surmised that my issues with Dax are due to the fact that he does not see me as an Alpha, and I would like to correct that.
    I saw an infomercial for "the perfect dog" which includes a pinch collar and training DVD's. The training is conducted by Don Sullivan, and I just wondered if anyone has ever tried it and specifically if anyone had ever tried it with their Dane.
    I have used a shock collar (which works, but you have to keep using it and it was causing weird stuff on Dax's skin), and a choke chain which had no effect whatsoever.
    I'm small, and I'm nervous that I won't be able to use the collar correctly...
    Any advice will be appreciated!
    sigpic
    The boys!
    Dax 4/18/08 and Argos 4/09/09

  • #2
    I cant give you any feedback because I've never tried this method (did look it up online just now and would love to hear what others say though)

    I will say we've been clicker training Day since 9 weeks (she is 3 months now) and the results have been EXCELLENT! Its great for basics, sit, wait, down, and supurb for potty training..

    I do hope you find a good method for Dax soon. Good luck.

    Also, if you continue to use the shock collar in the meantime, be sure to keep it off him when he's crated or anytime it's not needed. We used it on our Husky, took awhile for the fur to come back, but it did. Good luck. Best Wishes.
    Crystal- Mom to Gargani's K.O. Dayna Blue
    sigpic

    Comment


    • #3
      I looked it up too and searched for feedback, and it was all positive, which leads me to believe that the negative was eliminated.
      They say the large collar fits neck sizes up to 24 inches, and I'm not sure how big Dax's neck is (don't have a tape measure). He's 155 lbs, does that sound accurate?
      I might also look up NILIF because a lot of people recommend it on here, but 'm not sure what it entails.
      Thanks for your feedback!
      sigpic
      The boys!
      Dax 4/18/08 and Argos 4/09/09

      Comment


      • #4
        I was just about to write you again and tell you what I found.. TONS of positive feedback.. Of course I've only spent the last 15-20 mins poking around the web, but it sounds like a good idea. I thought I saw a money back guarentee as well if ordered directly.. Did see it on ebay. I wish I didnt have 5 weeks of puppy school left right about now. Then again, if this system works, Dayna could end up the best student she ever had.

        I'm seriously considering this, since we have small children and Dayna is still just a puppy with those puppy ways, She has been doing well with the basics (sit, wait, watch, down) but she is easily distracted, and a nipper/jumper/digger..

        As far as the collar size thing, I'm not much help, my girl is just a baby.. But before you spend all that money run to walmart and buy a fabric tape measure and check.
        Crystal- Mom to Gargani's K.O. Dayna Blue
        sigpic

        Comment


        • #5
          When I had Dax in puppy school, I found that it was best for socialization. I'm going to take Argos as well when he's done with his shots, but I may try the system too after I talk it over with hubby!
          Good luck!!
          sigpic
          The boys!
          Dax 4/18/08 and Argos 4/09/09

          Comment


          • #6
            Good luck to you as well.. Check out some of the youtube videos if you havent already as well.. And let me know how it goes with whatever you end up doing.. I'll do the same.

            Oh also, I completely agree about the socialization comment you made.. Its good and controlledd which makes me feel much better.. (not to mention you KNOW everyone has their shots utd)
            Crystal- Mom to Gargani's K.O. Dayna Blue
            sigpic

            Comment


            • #7
              Have you done obedience classes with him? Obedience classes are geared to teach you how to work with your dog. Even if you had done classes in the past, it might be time to do a refresher course. I'd certainly recommend the classes with an instructor you can ask questions to and get feedback from, over a DVD training program.
              sigpic
              In Memory of Sky, EZ and Honor

              Visit Poke's Facebook Page

              Member of the GDC of MD.
              Well behaved danes are not born. They are “made” by responsible and caring dane owners.

              Comment


              • #8
                Oh, I thought this post was about Parker, what with the title.

                My first instinct is bah...gimmicky and likely either paying for general advice you can get on your own, or worse, dangerous advice.

                My research shows its more likely the latter. From a review I found:
                "This guy believes in the Pack Leader theory as well and does NOT believe in treats to train of any kind. It is 100% behavior correction. You show the dog what you want to have done such as stay, come, lay, etc and if they don't respond in 2 seconds then you correct them. The system comes with a toned down version of a prong collar is the best way I can describe it. I use a prong extensivly to train my Lab and my Lab mix and found that the collar that came with the system didn't have enough bite. He also uses the tactic of a long leader and keeping that on the dog at all times, if the dog doesn't do what you want you grab the leader and correct the dog.

                Some folks may call this system harsh so if you are not ready to use total dominance on your dog this is NOT the system for you. If you are scared you may hurt your dogs feelings this is not the system for you. If you are not going to be 100% consistent in your corrections this is not the system for you."

                This does not sound like a method I agree with much less a method for a Dane.

                I do believe that some actions require consequences or deterrants such as a squirt bottle, but IMO this sounds like a dangerous method especially if you are already having some issues.

                NILIF stands for Nothing in Life is Free. It means your dog earns the good stuff in life. This isn't a mean program. Dogs LIKE knowing who their leader is and how to earn his/her good graces and get rewards like food and attention. http://www.k9station.com/NILIF.htm

                I don't know what issues you are having but there are great trainers out there who have written some really great books, like Patricia McConnell (who has a website here http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/) .

                One thing about negative training methods is that while they can work, they also can go very wrong. A positive method not only works better IMO, it also does not have the risks negative enforcement does.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thank you! I know the problems are with me and not Dax because my husband does not have those problems. Perhaps obedience training is the way to go.
                  I did read some stuff about the NILIF program, and started using some of the introductory methods (making them wait for you, etc).
                  We'll see. I don't want to hurt him for something that is my "fault."
                  sigpic
                  The boys!
                  Dax 4/18/08 and Argos 4/09/09

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by SirPupsMom View Post
                    Thank you! I know the problems are with me and not Dax because my husband does not have those problems. Perhaps obedience training is the way to go.
                    I did read some stuff about the NILIF program, and started using some of the introductory methods (making them wait for you, etc).
                    We'll see. I don't want to hurt him for something that is my "fault."
                    NILIF is an all or nothing program, at least to start. The idea behind it is that dog must defer to you for their pleasures and helps them to see you are boss. If you only do pieces of it the dog becomes further confused as to who has what role and often makes the situation worse. NILIF isn't painful nor confusing to the dog.

                    Whether your ineffective leadership style has caused these problems or not, it's time to fix it, not beat yourself up over how you got to this point. Dogs benefit from a strong leader, most dogs don't want the job of leader anyway as it causes the stress of thinking they have to handle situations they don't understand.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SirPupsMom View Post
                      Thank you! I know the problems are with me and not Dax because my husband does not have those problems. Perhaps obedience training is the way to go.
                      Frankly, training on your own can be very tricky if you are really unsure of yourself. Not that you shouldn't start working with him at home daily, but from the information in your postings, obedience classes will help YOU enormously. They will train you to train your dane. They will give you the confidence to work with your dane...and the bonus you'll have a well behaved dog.
                      Last edited by dolmod; 07-02-2009, 09:30 AM. Reason: repaired formatting
                      sigpic
                      In Memory of Sky, EZ and Honor

                      Visit Poke's Facebook Page

                      Member of the GDC of MD.
                      Well behaved danes are not born. They are “made” by responsible and caring dane owners.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        There was a previous post on this: http://www.dolforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39346

                        It is an ionic shock collar.
                        sigpic
                        What Tucker's up to now: http://greatdanetucker.blogspot.com/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by dolmod View Post
                          Frankly, training on your own can be very tricky if you are really unsure of yourself. Not that you shouldn't start working with him at home daily, but from the information in your postings, obedience classes will help YOU enormously. They will train you to train your dane. They will give you the confidence to work with your dane...and the bonus you'll have a well behaved dog.
                          I totally agree, but make sure to find a good trainer! A REAL trainer. A lot of places just have people who read the training manual they give out.
                          You need someone who truly knows how to read and work with a dog and can work with you to show you how to take control.

                          I like to think of it as 'I'm the mommy and I said so'. Being the leader in your home isn't some crazy gimmick with rolling your dog and corrections. You simply are the boss.

                          What do you think makes you uncertain? Do you not feel you can control your dog? Does your dog challenge you?
                          Last edited by alicat613; 07-02-2009, 10:09 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            nothing in life is free

                            Nothing In Life is FREE



                            The NILIF program is remarkable because it's effective for such a wide variety of problems. A shy, timid dog becomes more relaxed knowing that he has nothing to worry about, his owner is in charge of all things. A dog that's pushing too hard to become "top dog" learns that the position is not available and that his life is far more enjoyable without the title.

                            It is equally successful with dogs that fall anywhere between those two extremes. The program is not difficult to put into effect and it's not time consuming if the dog already knows a few basic obedience commands. I've never seen this technique fail to bring about a positive change in behavior, however, the change can be more profound in some dogs than others. Most owners use this program in conjunction with other behavior modification techniques such as coping with fear or treatment for aggression. It is a perfectly suitable technique for the dog with no major behavior problems that just needs some fine tuning.

                            ATTENTION ON DEMAND
                            The program begins by eliminating attention on demand. When your dog comes to you and nudges your hand, saying "pet me! pet me!" ignore him. Don't tell him "no", don't push him away. Simply pretend you don't notice him. This has worked for him before, so don't be surprised if he tries harder to get your attention. When he figures out that this no longer works, he'll stop. In a pack situation, the top ranking dogs can demand attention from the lower ranking ones, not the other way around. When you give your dog attention on demand you're telling him that he has more status in the pack than you do. Timid dogs become stressed by having this power and may become clingy. They're never sure when you'll be in charge so they can't relax. What if something scary happens, like a stranger coming in the house? Who will handle that? The timid dog that is demanding of attention can be on edge a lot of the time because he has more responsibility than he can handle.

                            Some dogs see their ability to demand attention as confirmation that they are the "alpha", then become difficult to handle when told to "sit" or "down" or some other demand is placed on them. It is not their leadership status that stresses them out, it's the lack of consistency. They may or may not actually be alpha material, but having no one in the pack that is clearly the leader is a bigger problem than having the dog assume that role full time. Dogs are happiest when the pack order is stable. Tension is created by a constant fluctuation of pack leadership.
                            EXTINCTION BURSTS
                            Your dog already knows that he can demand your attention and he knows what works to get that to happen. As of today, it no longer works, but he doesn't know that yet. We all try harder at something we know works when it stops working. If I gave you a twenty dollar bill every time you clapped your hands together, you'd clap a lot. But, if I suddenly stopped handing you money, even though you were still clapping, you'd clap more and clap louder. You might even get closer to me to make sure I was noticing that you were clapping. You might even shout at me "Hey! I'm clapping like crazy over here, where's the money?". If I didn't respond at all, in any way, you'd stop. It wasn't working anymore. That last try -- that loud, frequent clapping is an extinction burst. If, however, during that extinction burst, I gave you another twenty dollar bill you'd be right back in it. It would take a lot longer to get you to stop clapping because you just learned that if you try hard enough, it will work.

                            When your dog learns that the behaviors that used to get him your attention don't work any more he's going to try harder and he's going to have an extinction burst. If you give him attention during that time you will have to work that much harder to get him turned around again. Telling him "no" or pushing him away is not the kind of attention he's after, but it's still attention. Completely ignoring him will work faster and better.

                            YOU HAVE THE POWER
                            As the human and as his owner you have control of all things that are wonderful in his life. This is the backbone of the NILIF program. You control all of the resources. Playing, attention, food, walks, going in and out of the door, going for a ride in the car, going to the dog park. Anything and everything that your dog wants comes from you. If he's been getting most of these things for free there is no real reason for him to respect your leadership or your ownership of these things. Again, a timid dog is going to be stressed by this situation, a pushy dog is going to be difficult to handle. Both of them would prefer to have you in charge.

                            To implement the NILIF program you simply have to have your dog earn his use of your resources. He's hungry? No problem, he simply has to sit before his bowl is put down. He wants to play fetch? Great! He has to "down" before you throw the ball. Want to go for a walk or a ride? He has to sit to get his lead snapped on and has to sit while the front door is opened. He has to sit and wait while the car door is opened and listen for the word (I use "OK") that means "get into the car". When you return he has to wait for the word that means "get out of the car" even if the door is wide open. Don't be too hard on him. He's already learned that he can make all of these decisions on his own. He has a strong history of being in control of when he gets these resources. Enforce the new rules, but keep in mind that he's only doing what he's been taught to do and he's going to need some time to get the hang of it all.

                            You're going to have to pay attention to things that you probably haven't noticed before. If you feed your dog from your plate do you just toss him a green bean? No more. He has to earn it. You don't have to use standard obedience commands, any kind of action will do. If your dog knows "shake" or "spin around" or "speak" use those commands. Does your dog sleep on your bed? Teach him that he has to wait for you to say "OK" to get on the bed and he has to get down when you say "off". Teach him to go to his bed, or other designated spot, on command. When he goes to his spot and lays down tell him "stay" and then release him with a treat reward. Having a particular spot where he stays is very helpful for when you have guests or otherwise need him out of the way for a while. It also teaches him that free run of the house is a resource that you control. There are probably many things that your dog sees as valuable resources that I haven't mentioned here.

                            The NILIF program should not be a long, drawn out process. All you need to do is enforce a simple command before allowing him access to what he wants. Dinner, for example, should be a two or three second encounter that consists of nothing more than saying "sit", then "good dog!", then putting the bowl down and walking away.

                            ATTENTION AND PLAY
                            Now that your dog is no longer calling the shots you will have to make an extra effort to provide him with attention and play time. Call him to you, have him "sit" and then lavish him with as much attention as you want. Have him go get his favorite toy and play as long as you both have the energy. The difference is that now you will be the one initiating the attention and beginning the play time. He's going to depend on you now, a lot more than before, to see that he gets what he needs. What he needs most is quality time with you. This would be a good time to enroll in a group obedience class. If his basic obedience is top notch, see about joining an agility class or fly ball team. NILIF DOES *NOT* MEAN THAT YOU HAVE TO RESTRICT THE AMOUNT OF ATTENTION YOU GIVE TO YOUR DOG.
                            The NILIF concept speaks to who initiates the attention (you!), not the amount of attention. Go ahead and call your dog to you 100 times a day for hugs and kisses!! You can demand his attention, he can no longer demand yours!
                            sigpic

                            Comment

                            Working...
                            X