Agression Issue

[sb14564]

Milt was adopted from the humane society last July when he was 10 months old. I have worked with him to the point where he obeys me quite well. I have had some issues with him which are no longer a problem. I use NILIF with him also. He has turned out to be a wonderful boy who I am very attached to. He is great with the family and people that he knows, but if someone he doesn't know comes into the house, he will go after them, which unfortunately, I found out after the fact. Fortunately the person he went after had a heavy coat on and ended up with a bruise on her arm and no other damage. I reprimanded him, reintroduced him, while he was on lead and I had control of him and he was fine. This is what I've had to do since then with people he doesn't know well, just to be safe. I don't want to have to worry every time someone that he doesn't know well comes into the house. I think that he's being protective, which would be great if someone were a threat. I talked to my vet and she said that it's a fine line. How do I make him understand that he can't go after just anyone? In this day and age, it's nice to feel protected but I don't need to be protected from people that I know. Due to the winter, he really hasn't been out and around people. At this point, I'm even leary as to what he'd do. He was fine on lead with other people when I got him. I am signing up for obedience classes in the spring. I just hope that all goes well. Opinions and advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[OutRunning]

First let me say that on line forums are a great place for advice and shared stories, but please, please, please don't let that take the place of seeking professional advice. With a truly aggressive dog their life could be on the line.

Have you contacted a behaviorist? It could a resource gaurding issue (of people) and Jean Donaldson's book Mine! could prove to be a good read. As could Culture Clash. What do you do when you reprimand?

First make sure you can manage the situation. Have him on a leash, gated in a separate area with something to occupy him or in his crate. You can train a "go to" place when people come over. So when someone comes in he knows he has to go to his bed, or the kitchen. The guests can also supply treats so they are seen as something to look forward to.

Without knowing the triggers it makes it hard. Training will help but don't be surprised if it doesn't fix the problem. A behaviorist would be great. This site can help you locate one. http://www.iaabc.org/

[empm]

Our Clyde was bad about that. He was fine when we were away from the house and yard. We ended up just putting him in our bedroom if anyone came over.

[sb14564]

I have put Milt in his crate, for his sake and ours. When I first got him he was agressive with my husband and myself if he had a bone, a bully, etc. We let him know that that was unacceptable by verbally reprimanding him and would put him in his crate for a time out. Eventually, he allowed us to take these things away from him and we would give them back. He learned that as long as his behavior was appropriate, he could have them and that we weren't going to keep them. We can take anything away from him now. I've had other issues with him, as I've said that we've worked through. I guess I'm hoping that we can work through this one also. Thanks for the input so far.

[RelicDobes]

Wow. if my dog did that once, I can tell you know he would NEVER do that again....that is for dang sure.

simply putting the dog in a different room will solve NOTHING. what happens if he gets out? if someone comes in with out knocking? if someone accidentally lets him out? if if if ...those are a lot of ifs. it is NOT SAFE to have a dog behave like that.

call a professional ASAP.

as an owner of a large, unaltered male Doberman Pinscher, I have a lot of people scared of him if he even sneezes. I have to work extra hard to make sure he is always, 100% of the time, a good boy. Not always an easy task. He is VERY protective, and does not like people coming in our house if not invited. But he knows, the minute I stand up that he is be quiet and go lay down. he has a very good OFF switch.

your dog needs an off switch and you need professional help as soon as possible. letting this behavior continue will make it harder to modify and an "accident" could mean your dog is put to sleep, no questions asked...

[scsunshine]

I guess the first thing I would say is that your dog should not be greeting visitors immediately upon arrival.

My new addition does not do well with visitors in the house, if he meets in front of the house before they come inside he does not care. If he can see us interacting with a visitor before he meets them he is fine. If someone comes into my house and immediately tries to greet him he definitely becomes defensive.

It sounds like he is of course guarding at this point, so yes I would recommend having him in another room when guests come, or to start teaching him a down stay with visitors come. Your visitors also need to know that they should not come in and immediately greet your dog, do not look, touch or address in any manner.

[MyDaneBaby]

You definately need to seek the advice of a professional behaviorist.

In the meantime keep him away from the door.

Good luck.

[empm]

[QUOTE=RelicDobes;379852]Wow. if my dog did that once, I can tell you know he would NEVER do that again....that is for dang sure.

simply putting the dog in a different room will solve NOTHING. what happens if he gets out? if someone comes in with out knocking? if someone accidentally lets him out? if if if ...those are a lot of ifs. it is NOT SAFE to have a dog behave like that.

Putting Clyde in the bedroom solved the problem. I'd say, 'Time to go in the bedroom, Clyde.', and he'd stroll in and get on the bed and go to sleep. NO PROBLEM. Only one person is willing to come in the yard if we aren't home so that isn't a problem. No one would have the audacity to open our BEDROOM door. There were no 'ifs'. Whatever works for the individual situation. We didn't have an incident the whole time he was with us.

[RelicDobes]

[quote=empm;380417]

Wow. if my dog did that once, I can tell you know he would NEVER do that again....that is for dang sure.

simply putting the dog in a different room will solve NOTHING. what happens if he gets out? if someone comes in with out knocking? if someone accidentally lets him out? if if if ...those are a lot of ifs. it is NOT SAFE to have a dog behave like that.

Putting Clyde in the bedroom solved the problem. I'd say, 'Time to go in the bedroom, Clyde.', and he'd stroll in and get on the bed and go to sleep. NO PROBLEM. Only one person is willing to come in the yard if we aren't home so that isn't a problem. No one would have the audacity to open our BEDROOM door. There were no 'ifs'. Whatever works for the individual situation. We didn't have an incident the whole time he was with us.

then you were lucky. My friend's Golden Retriever ripped into her boyfriends mom because she thought the bedroom was the bathroom and opened the door by mistake. The mom had several bite marks and needed stitches...

the dog was put to sleep the next day. she was 3 years old, never properly socialized with strangers and very aggressive.

sad that a different solution wasn't looked into besides putting her in the bedroom. It could have saved her life....

[empm]

Like I said, it solved our problem. If someone doesn't know where the bathroom is, they ask. Especially if they know you have a dog put up. People's stupidity isn't the dog's fault, but in your case the dog paid the ultimate price.

[Shamu]

Until the problem is resolved with professional help, I think it is managable to keep the dog away from the situation when he would attack. Keep him on-leash when somebody is coming, and lock him in another room or crate when you can't control and watch him 100% of the time.

IMO, danes do have protecting instints, and it's unreasonable to expect that they'll happily meet stranges who are coming to the house. Even when those people are familiar to you, they are still strangers to the dog.
I trained my first dane for protection (this was necessary at that time and at that country, at least for her own safety-so noone will break into the house and take HER away). If someone will try to break in to the house, she was trained to attack (noone tried so I don't know if she really would ). But never in all her life we had a problem with her actually attacking someone. I knew I had a great dane - so I never kept front door unlocked. When door is locked, noone can come in without knocking.
When I had visitors, I would take her on-leash, tell her to sit first, let them in, and tell her that they are 'friends' - she would sniff them and let them in. Then depending from situation and who came in, I would either let her be around and watch her, or lock her in a bedroom - and noone ever tried to open the bedroom. Maybe it sounds compicated at first, but after a while it's just a routine - you need to know where you dog is, and what he is doing when you have visitors in the house.

[flamingstar]

Large dogs of any breed, need proper socialization. Take them to trails, to town, and walk up the street, just don't let anyone pet, they can stop and talk, but do not pet, the dog is in an unfamiliar area, so might feel threatened. You may have to get a muzzle for him. Their home is their territory, they will protect it no matter what. When I went to get my dobe pup, the man brought out the father and before he came into the room, asked us to sit on the couch, the dog then felt safer himself as we were the same height as him, he also asked us to use the dogs name, which also made the dog feel that we should be there. You boy needs some more socialization. Even now after 3 years of owning my dobe, if someone comes into the house and says his name, and is not afraid, he is their best friend, but if you are in the yard, and the person freezes, the dog can feel that and starts to get afraid himself, that in my mind causes problems.

[kcornel4]

Dog Aggression

Interesting thread....
Here is my experience. Our male Great Dane (now 3 1/2) has always been a bit nervous and timid with strangers, although he is wonderful with family of all ages, friends he has known for a long time, other dogs, cats, birds, pet bunnies, etc.

He was basically ok with strangers until we had three 'scary experiences' out walking in the same week: We walked past a road construction site just as a worker popped out of the excavation and (accidently) threw a shovel of gravel at us; A couple of days later we walked past a sewage cleaning tanker just as a worker -- wearing a whole face respirator and goggles --ran around the side of the vehicle (almost bumping into us) and slammed the vehicle's door; finally, three days later, I noticed a group of teenagers on bicycles approaching us. I walked my dog well off the street onto a neighbor's yard and made him sit. They actually rode up on the yard, laughing and shouting and 'dive-bombed' us. I should mention, I have a pronounced 'startle reflex', which I am sure did not help the situation, and he went totally beserk (barking, growling and lunging at them).

After that, he would bark and growl pretty ferociously at anyone we encountered on our walks, but was still his affectionate and gentle self with people he knew. Things came to a head when the first person he hadn't known (a friend from europe) came to visit. She reached a hand towards him to let him sniff and he growled and grabbed her wrist (just held it, didn't actually leave a mark, but still). As people have recommended, we took advice from a trainer. We have now completely improved his behaviour on walks through a combination of 'attention to me'/treating, training to 'heel' or 'go on out' (can go to end of leash as long as he does not pull), and sitting calmly/treating if something scary comes by. For the first week only, I used a prong collar for the occasional correction. Now he is back to his harness again.

If we have someone new come to the house, we put on a soft, vinyl muzzle (just in case), and either put him in another room with a gate so he can see what is going on, but can't come in, or we put him in our downstairs office which we can lock (with his bed, toys, bones). If it is someone who is going to become a frequent visitor, we go through a several visit desensitisation process: 1. Muzzle and in another room where he can see the guest (guest is asked to avoid eye contact and to ignore the dog; not to make sudden, potentially 'scary' movements). 2. Dog (in muzzle) is allowed in the room; family/friends sit on either side of the guest. Guest advised to ignore, and not make eye contact. 3. (If all goes well and the dog appears relaxed and accepting) dog (in muzzle) is allowed to interact with the guest. 4. When the dog greets and interacts with the guest in the way he does 'friends', we take the muzzle off, but surround guest with family/friends 5. If all is going well, we leave the muzzle off and let everyone act 'normally'. We go through all this because at step 2 with our European friend, my family insisted he was fine and I was going to extreme lengths. So we took the muzzle off and let him interact with her. All seemed ok, until my husband wanted to show our friend something in the downstairs office. He walked very briskly down the stairs, with my friend literally jogging behind them. I am sure it must have looked to my dog as if my friend was chasing my husband. My dog ran at my friend, jumped up and grabbed her ear -- again did not bite, just held it. so after that, we used the entire 5 step process. Using this approach, we have been able to add several new friends, quite successfully. However, we are always very vigilant for any sign of a problem, and never leave a guest alone with the dog.

We do not have any potential problem with someone just walking into the house, as all of our outside doors are kept locked, and our kids and their friends (all teens and 20's) understand the importance of, and keep to, our protocol. If we go someplace that is likely to be crowded with people (parks, shopping areas, the vet's) we still have been putting on the muzzle, although-- to be fair -- he has been quite tolerant and well behaved.

[joyable]

If we have someone new come to the house, we put on a soft, vinyl muzzle (just in case)....

You may want to switch to a basket-type muzzle instead of a fabric one. In order to be truly effective, soft muzzles should keep a dog's mouth closed. The problem with that is that dogs pant when stressed, so closing their mouths restricts breathing and increases stress. A basket muzzle is much less stressful for the dog and they're pretty cheap.

To see what I mean, you can see my Melot getting acupuncture with a basket muzzle on here: http://www.lissa.net/Joya/VHC_10-24-08.htm

I ordered a wire basket muzzle here: http://www.morrco.com/morwirbasdog.html and also ordered a set of plastic basket muzzles in assorted sizes from here: http://www.petedge.com/Vinyl-Basket-...et-ZT10611.pro

HTH!

[kcornel4]

Muzzle issue

I entirely agree with your comments about the basket type muzzle versus the soft vinyl. The soft vinyl also makes it impossible to give them treats; and I want to work on stationing 'strangers' around in crowded areas to give my dog treats to encourage confidence and reduce anxiety. When he does have to be in a muzzle for any period of time, we always move him to a secure location and give him a break for 10 -- 15 minutes. Ours is loose enough that he can drink water, but the panting and discomfort are serious issues.

My problem has been that in our area no one carries the basket types -- and in fact I have been berated by more than one pet store manager --when I made enquiries -- about their 'cruelty'. My vet is even gave me a 'frowny face' when I asked him about them.

So thanks for the website references -- I certainly shall have a go ordering one.
Karen