Lots of questions (long message, sorry)

[lenka]

Hi everyone,

Our 8-week-old Zeus has arrived and he is the most incredible little guy on the planet (no offence to other little guys, I am pretty sure I am biased). Of course we are head over heels in love and doing our best to take the best possible care of him. He is an absolute angel for the most part, I just have a few questions I am hoping you can help me with.

First, he hates being locked up in his crate. Just plain hates it. I have his favorite stuffed toy in there, and I put in puppy kong filled with treats and sealed with liver paste, his favorite blankie, everything to make him feel comfortable there, but he just hates being locked in, he cries so loudly that we end up giving in to the little terrorist's demands and letting him out again. A few times we have succeeded in getting him so tired that he falls asleep in the crate, at which point we would quietly close the crate door, but usually he wakes up just as I start closing it and starts whining right away. I have fallen asleep a few times already with my head half in half out of the crate, trying to get him to stay in there by staying with him, but the problem is that I cannot keep doing that, I need to go to work from 8 to 12, then I will run home to feed and walk him and then go back to work again from 1 to 5, I just don't know what to do with him during those times, he cries so much when locked in the crate by himself... Does anyone have any suggestions at all as to what I can do to help the little guy stay in his crate while I am gone without crying?

Another question I have concerns potty training - he's been doing pretty well for the most part but there have been a few accidents around the house, and there does not seem to be any warning sign at all that it's coming, he just walks around as usual and then suddenly squats and pees. We have been walking him religiously, every time after waking up, after eating, after drinking, after playing, but sometimes he has a little accident 5 minutes after he got walked! We are puzzled and don't know what to do to prevent these... can anyone help?

Also, he hates going outside in the cold. It's been pretty cold here in Baltimore - around 28-30, which is considered cold for a Baltimore winter - and he just hates going outside, and comes back shivering and miserable. We are expecting snow showers for the next couple of days and I just don't know what to do... what if he refuses to go outside in snow showers? He already hates going out, but with snow showers I am pretty sure he would just refuse altogether, and I would hate to drag him out too, but I really don't want to screw up his potty training... Does anyone have any suggestions?

Final question, is it absolutely terrible to take him to bed with us? We've been thinking that since he hates the crate so much, would it be so bad if we took him into bed to sleep with us and took him outside to do his business every time he wakes up? Would that interfere with potty training?

Thanks everyone, and sorry I ran on and on, I am just a newbie and have so many questions.

[sarae]

RE: Lots of questions (long message, sorry)


>First, he hates being locked up in his crate.

Honestly, I think the majority don't like it right away. There are other threads with how to desensitize your pup to the crate. Mine had also hated it at first, then loved it after he was use to it. The hard part is at the beginning getting him used to it, but if you give in, you're just prolonging it. The first two nights I covered the cage and put a ticking clock (harder to find now ). He whined at first, I told him to hush, after a few times he got it. I did stay on the couch where he couldn't see me because of the cover those first few nights so I could hush him quickly so he wouldn't wake up the kids too. As far as if you take him to bed with you, that's not really going to help get him use to the crate for when you're at work or have to go out and he wouldn't be reliable enough yet with potty training or chewing to be left so I'd personally just stay consistent and it will work out faster.
>
>Another question I have concerns potty training - he's been
>doing pretty well for the most part but there have been a few
>accidents around the house, and there does not seem to be any
>warning sign at all that it's coming, he just walks around as
>usual and then suddenly squats and pees. We have been walking
>him religiously, every time after waking up, after eating,
>after drinking, after playing, but sometimes he has a little
>accident 5 minutes after he got walked! We are puzzled and
>don't know what to do to prevent these... can anyone help?

This just sounds like typical puppy, you always think they "finished", then you come in and they go again. I actually took mine out almost every 1/2 hour to an hour during potty training (yes, it's a lot of time and I'm lucky that I'm a stay-at-home mom). With the cold, mine didn't like it either, but I thought it made potty time go quicker once he got it as he didn't want to be out sniffing every little thing before getting down to business. Just take him out as often as possible to the same spot where he's done his deed and treat and praise him when he does as expected. He'll get it. Some actually give a command with it too that after a while, the dog will understand that too. Are you going out with him?? At this stage it's better if you go too so you KNOW he went, even in the cold snow storms too.

>
Good luck and enjoy your pup. Take lots of pics now as they grow so fast.

[lenka]

RE: Lots of questions (long message, sorry)

Sara,

Thanks very much for your reply, you are right about taking him to bed - that won't help me at all with leaving him alone while I am at work, it would just make it harder, so I will stick with crate training. I will try to find a ticking clock somewhere, thanks for the suggestion. To answer your question, yes, I do go out with him, in fact I carry him out to do his business, they poured salt all over our asphalt to take care of the snow, I am pretty sure it would hurt his little paws to walk on it, so I carry him to the "poopie tree" (our designated bathroom area) and back into the house. Unfortunately I can't do it every 1/2 hour, but we have been walking him every time he wakes up, plus every time after eating and drinking, after play time, and also every time he asks by whining, so hopefully that's enough.

[dane-o-mite]

RE: Lots of questions (long message, sorry)

The crate issue. He'll get use to it. For the crying part when you leave try leaving the T.V. on...it worked wonders for me. Guess it made my boy think someone was still there.

If the weather is cold my boy runs out, does his business and comes back in. On the occassional day he decides to stay out in the cold put a sweater on him. I didn't have one big enought so I just took an old sweatshirt of mine that was too small for me, but perfect for him. I cut the arms to about halfway and he loved it.

[sarae]

RE: Lots of questions (long message, sorry)


>Unfortunately I can't do it every 1/2 hour, but we have been
>walking him every time he wakes up, plus every time after
>eating and drinking, after play time, and also every time he
>asks by whining, so hopefully that's enough.

This is what most do and it works. Like I said, I was lucky that I was able to, I know it's not the norm for most people though.

[trainer]

RE: Lots of questions (long message, sorry)

>First, he hates being locked up in his crate. Just plain hates
>it. I have his favorite stuffed toy in there, and I put in
>puppy kong filled with treats and sealed with liver paste, his
>favorite blankie, everything to make him feel comfortable
>there, but he just hates being locked in, he cries so loudly
>that we end up giving in to the little terrorist's demands and
>letting him out again.

If you continue to do that, you might as well throw the crate away. Put in him the crate without fanfare, close the door and walk. Don't make a big deal out of it. When you let him out, just open the door and let him out. Again don't make a big deal out of coming out of the crate. If you make a big deal it becomes a big deal ... if you don't, it won't. Don't let him out of the crate unless he is quiet and well behaved. It make take some extra time at first.

>I need to go to work from 8 to 12, then I
>will run home to feed and walk him and then go back to work
>again from 1 to 5, I just don't know what to do with him
>during those times, he cries so much when locked in the crate
>by himself...

Again, put him in the crate without fanfare and don't worry about him. He will probably cry himself to sleep pretty quickly. Don't say any long goodby's. Just leave the house, again without making a big deal out of it. If you aren't careful he will get seperation anxiety.

Does anyone have any suggestions at all as to
>what I can do to help the little guy stay in his crate while I
>am gone without crying?

Yes, just do it and don't make a big deal out of it. It's not going to kill him and he will quickly get used to it as a normal routine. The more fuss you make about it the harder it is on him. Do the pup a favor and stop making a big deal out of the crate. It will become a normal part of life in no time.

>Final question, is it absolutely terrible to take him to bed
>with us?

Unless you sre willing to accept a 150lb dog sleeping in your bed in a year, yes its terrible to do it now. Put his crate in your bedroom or get a smaller crate for the bedroom temporarily until he gets a few months older. This will help him.

>We've been thinking that since he hates the crate so
>much, would it be so bad if we took him into bed to sleep with
>us and took him outside to do his business every time he wakes
>up?

You are understandably trying to make life perfect for him. Unfortunately life isn't perfect for anybody. Let him get used to those little things he doesn't like. He will always have them.

I suspect you don't have children either.

Bill Carnes
www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

"If you won't eat what you are feeding your dog, its not good enough to feed him either."
Bill Carnes

"Causing pain, either physical, mental, or emotional to an animal to force him to act as you think he should is wrong. Doing so only reflects the ignorance of the trainer. There IS a better way."
Bill Carnes

[lenka]

RE: Lots of questions (long message, sorry)

Bill,

You are so right. Thanks for the tough love.

[trainer]

RE: Lots of questions (long message, sorry)



Bill Carnes
www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

"If you won't eat what you are feeding your dog, its not good enough to feed him either."
Bill Carnes

"Causing pain, either physical, mental, or emotional to an animal to force him to act as you think he should is wrong. Doing so only reflects the ignorance of the trainer. There IS a better way."
Bill Carnes

[knhicks]

RE: Lots of questions (long message, sorry)

I am soooo glad to hear, someone else feeling the way I do. I too am having issues crate training. The puppy has been home for 3 days now, the first night I did let her sleep with me, because I wanted her to get used to us. It was not a good night sleep for me at all. We started putting her in the crate yesterday, and goodness she cried so much and so loud. Tonight it seems the same thing. I just hope she gets used to it soon. During the day when she gets sleepy we put her in the crate and let her sleep with the door open, just trying to get her used to it. I have a feeling this is going to be a hard battle. I have friends who just tell their dogs to get in bed, and their dogs go to their beds or their crates and lay there and go to sleep. I want this to be the case for kenya too.


As for the potty training, she is doing so good. THe only problem right now is she has bad diarrhea from me switching foods from what the "breeder" gave her. But so far only one accident.

Like you said, I jsut want everything to be right for her. Ok enough rambling!

[amy76]

RE: Lots of questions (long message, sorry)

As for the crate, get her used to it now. I really screwed up and let my pup sleep with me in the beginning week and then I tried the crate because I wanted her to get used to it. Well she is now 4 months old and refuses to go in the crate and when I put her in there she poops and jumps all over in it. Its not very fun and I think bringing her to bed with us the first week really messed everything up. She is still in bed with us because I literally can't bring the crate in and out of the house everytime she goes in and makes a mess. That darn thing is heavy I have the 48" crate and can't even imagine the weight of the bigger one. As for sleeping in bed with us, hubby or I usually end up on the couch because just at 4 months she pushes one of us out of the bed. I really need to get her used to something because I can't trust her when I am gone and I can't take her everywhere with me. Its hard but just leave her in there. I wish I took my own advice in the beginning, now I am left clueless as to what I should do

[_Crystal_]

RE: Lots of questions (long message, sorry)

Hang in there and trust me, the crate thing and the crying is much harder on you than it is on him. Once they figure out that all the crying isn't going to work they quiet down and just get used to it.

If you know your puppy doesn't have to potty, then just walk away and completely ignore him. Don't try to get him to be quiet, don't coddle..just pretend he's not even there (easier said than done when you have a whinning puppy in a crate)

Brutus slept in his crate from night #1. He fussed a bit at first but after a few nights he would just go in there and go right to sleep.

Not to mention using a crate properly REALLY helps in potty training. Brutus was pretty much potty trained by 10 weeks old (with the exception of the accidents that were my fault for not getting him outside quicker).

Overall, be consistant. Don't let him in your bed one night and expect him to sleep in a crate the next. It's going to be tough at first but you'll be so happy you stuck with it later on down the road.


Good luck and I'll keep my fingers crossed that you don't loose your sanity in the process of getting him used to his crate. :7

[humbug]

RE: Lots of questions (long message, sorry)

Yep, put him in and walk out the door. I put a radio on most times. Dakota may cry a little still [she's 16 weeks] but my silence and walking to the door she knows crying is useless.
Now that she is older I have recently been addressing the issue of crying when I come home. I walk into the house to crying Dakota, sit in front of the crate with my back to her and wait for her to behave. I may coax with a stern "sit". When she is silent and sitting I will open crate with huge praise and outside to pee we go! Now, she still cries when my keys hit the door but she knows what to do to be let out. Baby steps for me anyway.
Maybe if Bill sees this he'll have better advice for both of us!
My Grandmother always said to me, "You can eat an elephant! But you have to do it one bite at a time."