"international champion"

[hotelcali2202]

what exactly does this mean?

I know AKC and UKC...but I have recently seen this title, and was wondering if someone could tell me more about it?

I am looking for a show pup and I see a lot of blue's that are international champions

[ODAG]

International Champion normally refers to IABCA (International All Breed Canine Association) titles. It is a generally more relaxed atmosphere where the dogs get a written evaluation from a judge based on the UCI standard.

Generally, I think most people see it similar to UKC, good practice for handlers and dogs, but, not the same type of competition you would see at an AKC event

[my3bbdanes]

International Champion normally refers to IABCA (International All Breed Canine Association) titles. It is a generally more relaxed atmosphere where the dogs get a written evaluation from a judge based on the UCI standard.

Generally, I think most people see it similar to UKC, good practice for handlers and dogs, but, not the same type of competition you would see at an AKC event

An International Champion in the US ususally refers to IABCA - - - definately not the same as a champion from another country.

It has been my expereince that MOST (not all) entries in IABCA shows can become champions if they generally appear to be of the breed they are entered as and they will allow themselves to be examined by the judge - and will gait on lead as directed.

It is NOT a competitive system when it comes to attaining a Champion title. Each dog is rated as an individual against the breed standard. Even the AKC judges seem less stringent. If there are 11 Danes entered - all 11 have the potential from getting the top rating from the judge - all 4 times - which means they all qualify as a Champion.

Most AKC breeders (IMO) discount the International Championship except as something fun, as a place to take puppies, practice, etc.

I personally enjoyed the shows because I need to work on my handling skills - and there are 4 shows in one weekend. Add in the fact that there are typically low entries - so I would take my dog in for the class, then Winners Dog, then Best of Breed, possibly group, and even up to Best in show ...each time back in the ring is another chance to practice with your dog...multiplied by 4 shows:-)

No matter how many handling classes I go to - it's not the same as ring experience.

I also think that because it is a more relaxed environment - it is a less intimidating place to start new puppy people who do not have show experience. The judges generally take more time with each dog, and give written comments.

Regarding the written comments - most focus on the positive attributes -
and barely touch on the negative.

[Carolyn]

IMO, its a "title" that is used by alot of questionable breeders (when that is the only "showing" a person does is IABCA or UKC).
These titles can be gained in one weekend of showing and almost all the dogs shown are given titles........how much credability would anyone give that?

If you are looking for a show pup, and you want a pup that is going to be competitive in the ring, you need to look at breeders who compete and win in AKC shows! And to take it to the next level, even more impressive is dogs that win AKC titles by their owner handlers........that way you know chances are high that politics werent involved in attaining the title.

Show pups are expensive from any breeder.....even those that only have weekend titles......so you really want to spend your money wisely and get the best pup possible to enjoy your ring experience and to start a foundation for a breeding program (as that is usually why people show).

Just my 2 cents

[DPU]

IMO, its a "title" that is used by alot of questionable breeders (when that is the only "showing" a person does is IABCA or UKC).
These titles can be gained in one weekend of showing and almost all the dogs shown are given titles........how much credability would anyone give that?

Doesn't it depend on what ring experience you want? From what I read on this forum, AKC ring experience can be brutal, backstabbing, and the judges are slanted. I am sure not all and most likely a small minority, but enough to make me wonder about the integrity of the AKC show process. So I am glad to see choices and that the direct application of the standard to the dog versus dog against dog.

Didn't I recently read of a Florida dog that accomplished an amazing feat by earning his champion title all in a weekend, and I believe it was AKC but I could be wrong.

[Bev_K]

From what I read on this forum, AKC ring experience can be brutal, backstabbing, and the judges are slanted. I am sure not all and most likely a small minority, but enough to make me wonder about the integrity of the AKC show process.

I've been involved in showing dogs for well over a decade now and have met some of my dearest friends through AKC dog shows/clubs. Have I met some doozies along the way as well? Oh my, yes! And I'll tell you that the one nasty person stands out (in your memory) in a crowd of 50 wonderful people.

There are those type of people everywhere in life – from the office to your kids’ soccer games to dog shows to message forums. <G> Don’t knock the entire sport based on those idiots.

An exhibitor can chose to show in any venue they wish. However, the AKC remains the gold standard for conformation here in the states.

[Carolyn]

<<Doesn't it depend on what ring experience you want?>>

Sure it does. If you have a pup or if you are a total novice and want to gain ring experience, IABCA/UKC/AKC sanction matches are great places to start. These venues are very casual, low keyed and making mistakes is not a big deal.
But if you are using these titles as your only viable title in hopes of gaining credability to market "show" pups or justify your breeding program is producing "winning" dogs, then no, *I* would not look at those titles as reflecting a good dog/breeder.

<<From what I read on this forum, AKC ring experience can be brutal, backstabbing, and the judges are slanted. I am sure not all and most likely a small minority, but enough to make me wonder about the integrity of the AKC show process.>>

Since you dont show, I guessing your stating this from hear say?
First off all types of competition whether it be animals, all sports (youth to professional), Olympics, kids 4H, politics, etc etc have these same problems. Why would showing dogs be any different? So does that mean a few corupt discredit the entire process?
And as you mention, this is a small minority and quite frankly it can be avoided by NOT participating in that behavior. Lead by example and stay out of the BS drama that tend to follow some people. And it isnt hard to figure out who to avoid ringside. The large majority of the people that I see regularly at the show are great people, supportive and glad to see EVERYONE have their spot light in the ring.

<<So I am glad to see choices and that the direct application of the standard to the dog versus dog against dog.>>

Again, if dogs were TRULY judge compared to the standard (as they should be in all venues of showing!) at IABCA/UKC shows you wouldnt see many of the dogs with these titles given them at all, let alone in one weekend of showing.
It doesnt take much to set aside one weekend to go to a show and then claim your dog is a Champion!

<<Didn't I recently read of a Florida dog that accomplished an amazing feat by earning his champion title all in a weekend, and I believe it was AKC but I could be wrong.>>

I dont believe it was in one weekend, but it was attained while on the Florida Show Circuit last month in what I believe was less then 6 shows. And I will say, he is a gorgeous young boy.
With that said, I also know of a young male that finished last year in one weekend of shows at the Ohio Specialties. I believe he is related to the pup that won in Florida. I also know of a dog (several years ago) that finished in 3 shows a couple days after his 6 month birthday.
Does this happen? Obviously it does, but its rare and those three dogs that accomplished this feat were worthy of the wins.

[MillyVanilly]

I was recently appalled by something that took place at an AKC show in Michigan. A friend(owner/handler) was showing her male in the open fawn class and was placed behind another dog that had a serious problem with his gait. There was something very structurally wrong with this dog. However, the dog was on a well-known professional handler. As the judge awarded this dog best in class, he tells the handler"You had better get that fixed, or you'll have problems finishing him". Didn't really even bother to whisper it....So yes...there is some downright disgusting things going on in the AKC, but that's life.
That being said, I think certain circuits are more corrupt then others.
I also believe that not all judges and/or shows are like this. I think as someone starting out, the IKC and UKC shows are a good place to get experience...You meet like minded individuals and can start compiling your list of who NOT to show too.
There are bad apples everywhere in life, you just need to learn who they are and stay away from them. I only wish I knew that as a teenager
I am going to be in Chicago this weekend, if you are still thinking of coming. I will not be showing Milly, just going as a spectator. I mainly want to get my hands on that artificial turf, LOL. When the snow melted I was shocked to see what those bastard moles did to my yard.

[DPU]

And I'll tell you that the one nasty person stands out (in your memory) in a crowd of 50 wonderful people.

There are those type of people everywhere in life – from the office to your kids’ soccer games to dog shows to message forums. <G> Don’t knock the entire sport based on those idiots.

An exhibitor can chose to show in any venue they wish. However, the AKC remains the gold standard for conformation here in the states.

Here's my points. 1.) I can't help the impression I get from reading all the negative posts about AKC. Each time I say to myself, its just a registery, why can't someone create a new registry with the simple criteria of allowing responsible breeders and their new owners of pups in. 2.) Only the "nasty person" makes the posts, the other 50 are never commented. 3.) I am not into showing, the basis of my opinion is "hearsay" but am I believe I am hearing the views of those ONLY in AKC shows? I did not read in this thread from anyone who has the IABCA or UKC experience, so aren't all these opinions' foundation rooted in "hearsay"?

[lwrees72]

I personally saw the dog that finished on the Florida circuit. I believe it took Cazzie 6 shows to finish. I am rarely impressed by puppies, but this boy was the best class dog in the ring. Dog shows, boxing, diving, gmynastics, any sport that has judges is going to be subjective. The judge must apply their interpretation of the expected result to the "competitor" before them.

That is the very reason one dog can go WD/BW one day and not make it out of their class the next. Are their politics at dog shows...sure? Does it happen as often as people like to portray...absolutely not! Are lot of people are simply kennel blind and can't or won't see the faults of their own dog or bitch.

Hell, I took Kaos into the ring in for a three day show last year, I had only been handling a month or so. I went WD/BP/PG1, WD/BW and WD for a total of 5 pts. I am a newbie in the ring, judges do not know me from Adam. The fact is the judge felt my boy was the best example of the breed in the classes, even with my lack of handling skills.

AKC is and continues to be, the best option of all of the registries available.

[Carolyn]

<<I am not into showing, the basis of my opinion is "hearsay" but am I believe I am hearing the views of those ONLY in AKC shows? I did not read in this thread from anyone who has the IABCA or UKC experience, so aren't all these opinions' foundation rooted in "hearsay"? >>

my3bbdanes gave her account of IABCA/UKC shows.
As far as my opinion, its based on looking at (and 1st hand knowing) dogs that have received Championship titles from these shows and knowing that some of them would have most likely have been excused from an AKC show for lack of merit.

I have 2 pictures of dogs (of acquaintances) that have a half dozen medals each dangling around their necks representing all their wins in one weekend of shows, and acquiring their Championship title. I would love to post them for all to see (one is a Euro brindle dog, the other is an American Blue) and ask your opinion of them. Even from one picture its clear to see that neither is a good representation of the breed. But by these dogs receiving their championship titles it gave their owners a false sense of what their dogs actually were not!

[rahime]

I have IABCA experience...I have a "puppy champion" from the IABCA (well, if I send in my paperwork and spend an additional $100 or so). And I've had ONE somewhat negative experience with an AKC judge (though her judgement was completely within her right, she was not particularly welcoming to a newbie--so, I suck it up and deal with it--as many have already said, there are unpleasant people in every aspect of life). I did think that the IABCA show was a nice experience for practice, and it's great to have four shows in a weekend and go into the ring multiple times each "show," but the quality of the dogs showing at the IABCA (overall, mind you, not that every dog was a poor representation of its breed) was FAR below the quality of those I've seen at AKC shows.

The written evaluations vary widely in their helpfulness and do primarily focus on positives (though one or two judges pointed out flaws that my puppy would "surely grow out of"....she probably will grow out of them, but regardless, to give a negative critique, it was always qualified with something like that).

In my opinion, the IABCA is like a feel-good version of a dog show, while the AKC shows set the standard much higher and as a result the "wins" are more meaningful.

[DPU]

The judge must apply their interpretation of the expected result to the "competitor" before them.

I do trust what you say on the subject of showings. Does "competitor" mean against the standard, against, the other dogs in the shows at that point of time, against past entries, or the ideal which is only in the judge's mind?

[lwrees72]

I do trust what you say on the subject of showings. Does "competitor" mean against the standard, against, the other dogs in the shows at that point of time, against past entries, or the ideal which is only in the judge's mind?

The judge's duty is to compare each individual dog agianst the standard set forth by the GDCA. They are then to award the dog or bitch (depending on class) that most closely matches said standard. Does that happen every time...no? Does it happen the majority of the time...yes.

[DPU]

The judge's duty is to compare each individual dog agianst the standard set forth by the GDCA. They are then to award the dog or bitch (depending on class) that most closely matches said standard. Does that happen every time...no? Does it happen the majority of the time...yes.

Have you witnessed two, three, four, etc top awards given out at the same time? Have you witnessed no dog getting a top award? It seems to me the standard's quality of the group being judged should not be a factor. Am I correct in that it is a factor in judging? This is why I seem to like the other registries because it was said they use only the standard against the dog and not the dog against dog.