"tweaking" at dog shows

[silentskream]

So while in Chat this afternoon, the topic of show supplies came up, and one of the supplies mentioned was chalk.
For those that don't know, as i didn't, chalk is occasionally (or maybe even often) used to "correct" stains on the white of a harl, or to darken any black areas.

I was surprised to find that this is common practice, and from what I can tell is not looked down upon in show circles. At worst, it could be considered cheating.. at best, it could possibly be considered misleading.

So I thought I'd bring it here.. I'd like to know:
what is your take on it?
When is it OK and when is it not?
For those who are familiar with the history of the standard, has it always been allowed?

Please be gentle, as I'm very new to this, and am truly trying to get some honest perspective.

[ROTTI2DAYNE]

This is interesting, I would think that when the judge ran his hands over the dog, to get a feel for the muscle tone and structure that the chalk would rub off on his hands, I know that if I was a judge and that happened I would be none to happy, but seeing as they are looking at the whole package, it may not weigh too much in the overall decision, excited to see some of the answers to this.

[CarolB]

Nothing that alters the normal look of the dog is supposed to be done. Is it? Yes but if you are caught you can be disqualified. A judge might think something has been done but you have to be able to prove it. If the judge gets chalk on his/her hands then that's proof. Handlers and people that show their own dogs are very good at doing things and not getting caught.

[silentskream]

Okay! So it is against the rules and considered "cheating"
That's something that was not clear and I haven't been able to find specific verbage in the AKC event rules.
Thank you!


ETA:
I finally found the verbage in Chapter 11 Section 8-C of the rulebook:

SECTION 8-C. No dog shall be eligible to compete at any show and no dog shall receive any award at any show in the event the natural color or shade of natural color or the natural markings of the dog have been altered or changed by the use of any substance whether such substance may have been used for cleaning purposes or for any other reason. Such cleaning substances are to be removed before the dog enters the ring.
If in the judge’s opinion any substance has been used to alter or change the natural color or shade of natural color or natural markings of a dog, then in such event the judge shall withhold any and all awards from such dog, and the judge shall make a note in the judge’s book giving his reason for withholding such award. The handler or the owner, or both, of any dog or dogs from which any award has been withheld for violation of this section of the rules, or any judge who shall fail to perform his duties under this section, shall be subject to disciplinary action.

[OMD]

If you think putting a spot of chalk on a dane is bad, you should see some of the fluffy breed dogs, they are so covered in chalk they leave a cloud and trail on the mat as they go around the ring, when they shake its a dust cloud! I cant even go near grooming or I have a major allergy attack. Some are so covered in products and spray their fur feels like cotton candy.

I really dont think a spot of chalk here or there will help or hurt your chances in the ring unless your covering a non showable marking/color. I have used it before to cover a black bald scar on a fawn dane's show side leg but only tried it once just to experiment then went on to finish the dog scar showing no problem. It was more for my own piece of mind and I dont think the judges ever even noticed the scar and I have not used it since. I have seen people 'draw' a mask on a dog with chalk and its so ugly and obvious.
I see so many people show ungroomed, pee stained gross greasy smelly callous covered dogs and take home all the ribbons, so I really dont think chalk will help you get a leg up on the competition.


Stephanie

[silentskream]

If you think putting a spot of chalk on a dane is bad, you should see some of the fluffy breed dogs, they are so covered in chalk they leave a cloud and trail on the mat as they go around the ring, when they shake its a dust cloud! I cant even go near grooming or I have a major allergy attack. Some are so covered in products and spray their fur feels like cotton candy.

I really dont think a spot of chalk here or there will help or hurt your chances in the ring unless your covering a non showable marking/color. I have used it before to cover a black bald scar on a fawn dane's show side leg but only tried it once just to experiment then went on to finish the dog scar showing no problem. It was more for my own piece of mind and I dont think the judges ever even noticed the scar and I have not used it since. I have seen people 'draw' a mask on a dog with chalk and its so ugly and obvious.
I see so many people show ungroomed, pee stained gross greasy smelly callous covered dogs and take home all the ribbons, so I really dont think chalk will help you get a leg up on the competition.


Stephanie

I guess that is what my ultimate question is.. How "worth it" can it really be? Seems like the risk of disqualification greatly outweighs the risk of slight discoloration.

[ouesi]

First off - I don't show in the breed ring, never have.
I have however competed with animals a good bit and here's my take.
Whenever I take a dog or horse anywhere, I want to present them in the best light, both from personal pride, and out of respect for the audience I'm presenting the dog to. DH laughs at me because the dogs get a full rub-down, ear clean, etc. before going to the vet for a routine visit. It's just ingrained in me I guess...
I've mentioned somewhere else that Bates (black dog) is currently sporting a nice healed gash on his head that hasn't grown the hair back yet. I am seriously considering taking an eyeliner pencil (or sharpie!) to it when we go on our therapy visit the 28th (really hoping he'll be healed up by then!)

So I guess my take is that its a slippery slope between trying to present your dog in the best light (whitening up the spots that are already white) and covering up a fault (dyeing a black mask on to a fawn who doesn't have one).

[daneslave]

One thing about great danes you cannot hide the structure with hair.Using a little chaulk to cover gray hairs on the muzzle is not changing the dog.Wanted to add who would be americas next top model without makeup?

[isdapous]

If you could see what the Cocker people do to those dogs, you would barf!!!
I have seen white chalk used to whiten a stained white foot or something of that nature, and don't object, but those dogs who have been powdered and chalked and even tatooed always really pissed me off!
When one chalks, the appropriate thing to do is to put it on, and blow or wipe it back off. This way, there is nothing foreign on the dog, but the white is highlighted.
An old Boxer breeder/all breeds judge taught me to use laundry soap with bluing to whiten the whites and it worked, so no chalk was needed. (Some of you who have been in the breed for a long time may remember Cliff Ganson. He was a good old guy and my mentor. We taught handling classes for several years together. I miss him so much, even after more than 10 years since he died.)

[Lizzie]

One thing about great danes you cannot hide the structure with hair.Using a little chaulk to cover gray hairs on the muzzle is not changing the dog.Wanted to add who would be americas next top model without makeup?

You crack me up!!!!

[daneslave]

Wanted to add when showing standard poodle white boys we had to bleach the yellow urine stains out the night before.Do i think thats cheating no who wants to see a yellow pee stained dog from lifting his leg on his poms stomach etc.I will tell you a judge would not put you up seeing that.

[Devil Dog]

It's amazing how quickly the high road of not doing anything illegal goes out the door..when you want to give your dog the edge, and win.

Poodles with hair extensions, one good shake and out the extensions go, flying all over. Years ago a well known breeder of blacks asked me to hold her dog while she packed up to leave the show. The Dane leaned against me, and left black smudges all over my pant suit. Carol B....remember Witchcraft??

IMO..a little fudging here and there ain't no big deal.

Dee

[daneslave]

It's amazing how quickly the high road of not doing anything illegal goes out the door..when you want to give your dog the edge, and win.

Poodles with hair extensions, one good shake and out the extensions go, flying all over. Years ago a well known breeder of blacks asked me to hold her dog while she packed up to leave the show. The Dane leaned against me, and left black smudges all over my pant suit. Carol B....remember Witchcraft??

IMO..a little fudging here and there ain't no big deal.

Dee

Lol i never used hair extentions one time i was showing a white puppy boy in 6to9 class and the judge just keeped pulling on his nice long ears a handler told me he thought i had hair extentions and that when i learned about them.But let me tell you a owner handler will get caught but not so much the pros!

[CarolB]

Dee, yes I remember Witchcraft.

[Devil Dog]

Dee, yes I remember Witchcraft.

Annette was who asked me to hold their dog. I'm sure they are both passed by now, so OK to let the cat out of the bag.

Dee