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Bite help PLEASE!!

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  • Bite help PLEASE!!

    Hello,
    I am looking for some help.
    I have purchased a very well bred/line bred harlequin from some of the finest lines. He is 7 months old and has an undershot jaw and I would love some opinions. This puppy was purchased on a show/breeding contract. I hope you can respect that I am leaving names and pedigrees out of this at this time while I am looking for help and advice. I desperately want to show this puppy but find myself discouraged due to his bite. I want our show career together to be very pleasant.
    Thank you all for your time.
    Sincerely, Dane Help
    I will try and post pics in the photo gallery.

  • #2
    Since you have a show contract, have you contacted the breeder?
    sigpic

    Libby

    Owned by Dakota RN CGC (great dane), Grand Champion Alter - Bailey (ragdoll cat), and our newest addition - Bridget (lab/plott hound mix)

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    • #3
      What do you want opinions on?

      Taken from the GDCA website:
      Teeth - shall be strong, well developed, clean and with full dentition. The incisors of the lower jaw touch very lightly the bottoms of the inner surface of the upper incisors (scissors bite). An undershot jaw is a very serious fault. Overshot or wry bites are serious faults. Even bites, misaligned or crowded incisors are minor faults.

      Personally I would NOT show a dog with an underbite.......nor would I breed a dog with an underbite. I think almost every judge would either excuse you or put you at the back of the line. And ultimately I cant imagine why anyone would breed a dog with an undershot bite. Thats an issue that will haunt a pedigree forever!

      But what matters is not my opinion but what the contract says that went with the pup. Read the fine print! Hope your breeder stands behind their pup!
      Good luck!
      Carolyn
      Divine Acres Great Danes
      Divine Acres The Legend "Bruce" 5 1/2 months old..5th generation of DA Danes!
      sigpic

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      • #4
        Your advice is exatly what i was looking for Carolynn. I am very distraught over what to do. The breeder says it may get better over time and that vitamin C will help. The want to see the dog shown soon but I really dont want to go out there with an undershot jaw.
        Thank you very much.
        Any other insights or advice is welcomed.

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        • #5
          <<The want to see the dog shown soon but I really dont want to go out there with an undershot jaw.>>

          The breeder wants the pup in the ring right now with an under bite? Interesting.
          Have them show him !

          Personally, I feel strongly about certain things and I do everything I can to avoid being either excused or embarrassed.
          Limping dogs, not legal height minimum, underbite, both testicles *in the sack*, etc, etc are a few things that I am careful about and wont do.

          I have a bitch I showed and finished with an even bite and I will tell you, the judges noted it and one sweeps judge told me she wouldnt give me the BIS (Best in Sweeps) because of her even bite! And an even bite is suppose to be a MINOR fault!!

          I also have one that has a couple missing teeth.......there are some judges I wont show her too because I know they will put me at the back of the line. And again, thats a MINOR fault.

          Though my experience is very limited in this area (a harl breeder friend of mine had a few off bites).......Ive never known of an underbite that went to a correct bite.

          How about you Sean, Carol or Mimi?
          Carolyn
          Divine Acres Great Danes
          Divine Acres The Legend "Bruce" 5 1/2 months old..5th generation of DA Danes!
          sigpic

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          • #6
            Carolyn?
            Out of curiosity- when is a Dane pups bite fully done developing?
            Our pup had a perfect bite at 8 weeks, grew into a ONE INCH overbite around seven months and finally grew back level....(I called him Mortimer Snerd for a while)

            I know the lower jaw is usually the last to finish growing in other breeds, so an underbite would be a concern, but at what age is it OFFICIALLY bad?

            Randa
            Randa

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            • #7
              If you browse through the GDCA top breeder interviews, there's a question about the interited traits that are hardest to eliminate from a breeding program. I'll post a few so you can draw your own conclusion:

              Sept 2008:
              Breeder name on GDCA web site, Fawns and brindles and in the breed since 1970 (38 years)
              What inherited trait is the most difficult to eliminate from a breeding program?
              In my opinion it is very difficult to 'breed out' poor temperament, bad bites, light eyes, and imperfect toplines and croups.

              Aug 2008:
              Breeder name on GDCA web site, Owner of Top Twenty contenders for 12 years.
              What inherited trait is the most difficult to eliminate from a breeding program?
              Incorrect bites, bad croups, and lack of shoulder angulation.


              July 2008:
              Breeder name on GDCA web site, breeding fawns, brindles and blacks since 1970.
              What inherited trait is the most difficult to eliminate from a breeding program?
              Bite problems, temperament, long backs and steep croups.

              And you can find more here: http://www.gdca.org/breederseducatio...rsedsept08.htm I'm not sure whether a judge would eliminate a dog based solely on bad bite, but it sure seems to be a serious enough fault that top breeders work to eliminate this from their breeding program.
              Last edited by joyable; 12-16-2008, 05:10 PM. Reason: ETA: removed breeder names
              Lissa's furkids: Jupiter (RIP), Merlot (RIP), Savannah, and Poet
              sigpic
              Visit them at: http://www.lissa.net/Joya/
              MAGDRL: http://www.magdrl.org/
              AKC CGC Evaluator #9661 since 2003
              Feeding RMB since 2001

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Mongo View Post
                Carolyn?
                Out of curiosity- when is a Dane pups bite fully done developing?
                Our pup had a perfect bite at 8 weeks, grew into a ONE INCH overbite around seven months and finally grew back level....(I called him Mortimer Snerd for a while)

                I know the lower jaw is usually the last to finish growing in other breeds, so an underbite would be a concern, but at what age is it OFFICIALLY bad?

                Randa

                I am interested in this too. When our pup was around 3-4 months of age he had a serious overbite. I was kind of upset, even though he was on pet contract. By 8 months old it had fixed itself and there is no more overbite.
                sigpic

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                • #9
                  <<Out of curiosity- when is a Dane pups bite fully done developing?>>

                  When the head is done growing.

                  An overbite is not nearly as serious (assuming that it is not a *severe* overbite) as an underbite. Overbites normally will correct themselves as the head matures.........though with that said, I saw a harl puppy with an overbite so bad its bottom jaw was over an inch short. The owners had to hand feed it!

                  I have not known an underbite at 6 months old to ever go to a correct scissor bite.
                  Carolyn
                  Divine Acres Great Danes
                  Divine Acres The Legend "Bruce" 5 1/2 months old..5th generation of DA Danes!
                  sigpic

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                  • #10
                    I really appreciate all the insight and opinions on this matter. I did e-mail the breeder again today and am waiting on a response. Please keep sharing any information that you has on his fault. I now know that this is not going to get better and that going out in the ring will just make a fool out of the both of us.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mongo View Post
                      I know the lower jaw is usually the last to finish growing in other breeds, so an underbite would be a concern, but at what age is it OFFICIALLY bad?

                      Randa
                      As soon as it goes under IMO. its never going back (atleast I have never seen one go back to norm after being under)
                      Sean

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                      • #12
                        I have delt with bite issues in another breed. It may not even be your breeders fault. Just the way the cards were delt.
                        That's what makes breeding so FUN (end sarcasm)
                        I have shown and CH'd dogs (BT's) with bad bites yet would NEVER even try with a Dane.
                        Sean

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                        • #13
                          Pictures have been posted in forum Gallery

                          http://www.gdohosting.com/dolforum/s...00&ppuser=1331
                          Last edited by dolmod; 12-17-2008, 09:43 AM. Reason: added link

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                          • #14
                            Sorry but there is no way that the bite pictured is correcting itself.. You can see where the Canines are pushing the Incisors out of alignment also.
                            Sean

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                            • #15
                              Thank you for your time and help! It is very much appreciated.

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