Hello, I have been a member here for a short time and have learned so much from so many nice people here and you have helped us bring our new puppy into our home and give her what she needs. I'm not trying to ruffle feathers so to speak, but I almost feel offended when I read a post about members against byb's and going into length about all of the people who support them by purchasing a puppy from one. We got our puppy from a byb and I will say that we were uninformed about the issue and therefore didn't think twice about it. Did we support byb's? Seems we did. Does that make us not worthy to be a part of this community? I hope not but I'm starting to feel that way. Every time I read a post about someone with a Dane or Dane Mix that has some sort of health or temperment issue it's automaticly contributed to breeding practices. Are their no "Quality Bred" Danes out there with any health issues at all? After becoming more "informed" about byb's and being more pasionate about the Great Dane breed we will do our homework before even considering another one. Only exception would be rescue. Thanks for listening!
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I'm in your shoes, I had never heard of a BYB until AFTER I bought my puppy. What most people are generally saying is that they are upset at the people who know and understand what BYBs are and still buy from them because maybe they are cheaper, easier to get, whatever. I can probably almost bet that everyone on here has bought a BYB at some point. Mostly, that's how we all learn to not buy from them. I have a BYB Dane, who is completely healthy (knock on wood) and sometimes reputable breeders have pups with health issues, it happens. But I'm sure nobody here is saying you are unworthy of a Dane, I know I'm not, I think they all hope tho that you don't buy from a BYB the next time, because now you are informed. And from one BYB buyer to another, I hope your puppy lives a long, healthy, happy life!!!sigpic
Mom to Harley *Great Dane* Sadie *GS/Boxer* Sneakers *Bengal Cat* Lil Bit *Munchkin Cat* Boozer *Devil Cat* and Squishy *Hedgehog*RIP
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Originally posted by dvdslw View PostWe got our puppy from a byb and I will say that we were uninformed about the issue and therefore didn't think twice about it.
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there are a lot of people on here who have dane pups from BYB, whether they are rescues or were purchased before being educated. i am one of those people. i had NO idea just how much genetics went into play when purchasing a pup. i thought if it was purebred and papered it was good to go. yes, you and i and all others who bought from BYB supported them, technically.
a lot of people seem to think that members of DOL consider dogs from BYB sub par, but that is far from true seeing as a lot of us have them and they are all lovedit is the breeders themselves who are sub par, who are ruining our breed. and the people who KNOWINGLY buy from one of those breeders are the ones that we get frustrated with.
ive said this before, my dogs are members of my family, and i will do everything i can to ensure they are happy and healthy. and i wouldnt expect any less from the person who is bringing that member of my family into the world.
and yes there are dogs from great breedings that can have issues, the difference you ask? these dogs are spayed and neutered, backed with support from their breeders and they dont just leave their puppy buyers to deal with the hardship of having a dog with health issues. some breeders will help with medical bills should something happen, some breeders will take the dog back if thats what the owner wants. but no matter what, a good breeder is there for that owner because they love that dog just as much.
thats saying a lot about good breeding practices right there, i havent even heard from or been able to get ahold of Romes breeder since he was 4 months old, and now he is almost 2. luckily i have DOL and all the great resources here.sam: mom to 2 danes (Romeo/mantle merle and Daegan/fawn), and Cora, the ragdoll kitty.
"inside every Great Dane is a puppy just longing to climb into your lap"
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Originally posted by kwhit View PostWasn't your first post on DOL before you got your puppy? If so, how was it that you were "uninformed"? It's extremely easy to find information on this forum on how to find a reputable breeder and what to look for so you don't fall victim to or support BYBs. So if you had wanted to be informed, you had the tools right in front of you before you chose your puppy...sigpic
Mom to Harley *Great Dane* Sadie *GS/Boxer* Sneakers *Bengal Cat* Lil Bit *Munchkin Cat* Boozer *Devil Cat* and Squishy *Hedgehog*RIP
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Originally posted by dvdslw View PostAre their no "Quality Bred" Danes out there with any health issues at all?
Most members have BYB danes, and no one has said buying a dog from a great breeder guarantees good health.
The fact is the better the breeder the better your chances are of getting a dog that looks like what a dane is suppose to look like, and have good health and temper.
My girl Angel is a BYB dog, and in a few months she'll be three and zero health issues, infact she's quite sturdy.
when folks come on I try and encourage them to get a dane from a good source and to not let cheap price sway your purchase.
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Originally posted by harleylvr View PostI can see both sides here....granted, I didn't join until after I got my pup, but even after the few threads I read on here, I saw nothing about BYBs and breeders...
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I have a byb dane. No one has a problem with me or my boy.
Think the problem people here have is people who come on here ready to learn and say "oh my pup is 5 weeks im getting them at 8 weeks". And its obvious its not from a good breeder the least you can do is warn them. Or should they just sit there and not say anything at all? I can tell ya that wont happen cuz that is not what this forum is about.
Or the problem is people coming on and basically bragging about their breeder and getting all pissed because someone else investigated and saw through the bybs BS. its nothing against the buyer. If anything its helping the buyer.
Even if a person does know better and gets a byb pup we all still welcome them and think no less of their dog. We just wish they could learn to love the breed like we do and see why this is so important.
Once you can figure out why its important then those post will not look so harsh. Been through it too. Used to think this place was terrible but once I figured out what dol was all about now its totally understandable. You will get there too. Once you do your research. If you don't care to learn then you will never understand this place.sigpic Little boy!
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Sad to say, that is the first time I have seen it *shakes head*. Maybe if I had been here before I bought I would've looked for more threads that pertained to that. If I have an issue with Harley, I do look in past threads, but on the daily, I just look at new posts. Maybe it should be neon for dummies like me!sigpic
Mom to Harley *Great Dane* Sadie *GS/Boxer* Sneakers *Bengal Cat* Lil Bit *Munchkin Cat* Boozer *Devil Cat* and Squishy *Hedgehog*RIP
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Originally posted by angeldane View PostI think you need to read through some of the archives.
Most members have BYB danes, and no one has said buying a dog from a great breeder guarantees good health.
The fact is the better the breeder the better your chances are of getting a dog that looks like what a dane is suppose to look like, and have good health and temper.
My girl Angel is a BYB dog, and in a few months she'll be three and zero health issues, infact she's quite sturdy.
when folks come on I try and encourage them to get a dane from a good source and to not let cheap price sway your purchase.
Most all these post of this nature always have the same verbiage . I realize now i have a product of a byb and my feelings are hurt because somebody said my dog is the result of a nasty byb.
I am sorry i wish i was more articulate to express this point and i have done a poor job at it. But this is like drawing a big bullsye on your back and then saying please be sympathetic with ME and don't shoot !
If there is anything you don't understand study the archives . EVERYTHING is in there . At least do yourself that much before you stick your head up above the trench line .
'' I guess that is just the way a man wants to think '' I have a friend here that may appreciate the quote .
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Originally posted by Dickie Best View PostIf there is anything you don't understand study the archives . EVERYTHING is in there . At least do yourself that much before you stick your head up above the trench line .sigpic
Mom to Harley *Great Dane* Sadie *GS/Boxer* Sneakers *Bengal Cat* Lil Bit *Munchkin Cat* Boozer *Devil Cat* and Squishy *Hedgehog*RIP
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dvdslw, I have seen many back and forths on this lately, and one long thread ended up closed by an admin because of the lengthy back and forth that really went nowhere. I am afraid this thread may end the same way.
I am going to put my story here, but it is only my story, my personal opinion and it's going to be long, so those who are not interested in my personal thoughts (and that's all they are) don't read!
Before I came to DOL I was familiar with BYB, partly because my husband's father was a reputable breeder of walkers, he showed, his dog Ace won all kinds of competitions was number one in the country and my FIL was very careful about how he bred Ace and his kennel because he cared very much about the breed.
When I got Apollo I spent a lot of money and did a lot of research and waited a long time to get Apollo from a good breeder, he was my first dog as an adult, and Boxers can have all kinds of issues and I didn't want those issues.
I did get my first dane as a rehome who was a BYB from a friend who had Tyler's brother and Tyler, and shortly after he got both puppies he broke up with his girlfriend couldn’t handle two GD puppies on his own (We had tried to get Gambet from him too, but he wouldn't give him up). Since then I have reconsidered that choice, sometimes now I wonder if I should have insisted he give Tyler back to the BYB instead, but I didn't think about that then.
I joined DOL and shortly after I did Tyler got parvo. I didn't make all the right choices in treating her parvo, which I know now. The knowledgeable members here educated me on how parvo should be treated, and why, but by then it was too late. Although I did not always do the right thing everyone gave spot on advice, but more importantly even though they disagreed with my choices (which I thought were right) they were always kind and compassionate in their responses because they could tell I was in pain and loved my dog. That is why when I eventually got JJ I came back to DOL. DOL has given me so much in information and the ability to share the love of this breed it has changed the life of all my dogs for the better.
BYBs are bad. The most compelling reason in my mind why they are bad is that there are SO many animals that get PTS every year in shelters because dogs are being sold to people who are irresponsible and the breeders don't care. That is tragic. That (to me) is the number one reason why a BYB should not be supported, and there is no argument against that line of reasoning that could persuade me to think twice about it. To me, anything else could hold a rational I would consider, but when I think of the millions of scared, unloved animals PTS I can't think about any good reason why a breeder should just sell to anybody because of money.
Having said that I will also say that I do think DOL is understanding that some people are uneducated on the issue, and they seek to educate. They are aggressive in this cause because many of them have rescued, worked for shelters, or rescues, and know from personal experience the consequences of the BYBs. They have put in their time, money, and cried tears over what they have seen. It's hard to remain dispassionate under those circumstances.
Okay, now there are some members who have been less than honest about their own experiences with purchasing from BYBs, or disagree that it was a bad choice and try to hide it. Personally, I don't respect people who are dishonest. I don't like them, or trust them. It's my own personal opinion that even these people should not be attacked.
Someone can voice an opinion w/o attacking someone else. He or she may feel the attack is deserved but I don't believe in attacking other fellow human beings. I simply don't think it's necessary. A forum is not like a live conversation where tempers can be lost, someone can pause, read over their post, and find the best wording to get their point a crossed without being nasty.
If there is someone I feel is dishonest, and would buy from a BYB again in the future, or thinks anyone who does not support BYBs is an elitist snob I simply don't respond to their posts. If they want information, they can get it, but if I don't like them I don't have to befriend them, and I don't have to attack them. I worry that people lurking and considering joining, who are good owners and would make great dane advocates for ethical breeding may be turned off by a contentious atmosphere and not join. I know I've quit many forums where things got too out of control with personal attacks, and negative assumptions made and I really missed them.
I know many will disagree with me and I do understand that perspective, this stand just fits with my personal ethics. I respect all those who disagree.sigpic
1 husband * 1 teenager * 2 great danes * 2 boxers * 1 cats * 2 African cichlids * 34 land hermit crabs
RIP Tyler RIP Smokey
http://thegratedanegane.wordpress.com/
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I made the same mistake and hate it i do . I did not realize my mistake until i read the archives . The subject of byb is a hard subject to understand . I have watched this subject for four years now and i still have a hard time taking it all in . I may never have another dane and i love my dog but unless i am grossly fooled i will never have another that came from a byb . My dog has been everything i wanted it to be . It gets along well with my granddaughter and all kids it amazes me . The dog is nearly the best babysitter i have ever had . The dog follows all the basic commands and has generally good health , I have been VERY lucky . That is all i want . Nobody and i mean Nobody has never told me i can't or should not love my dog . There is people here that are vehemently against byb some new well my dog was a result of a byb . Guess what though one of the most outspoken for lack of a better word people against byb on this forum was the very first person to help me when i had a problem . And again when i had a behavior problem yet another person i went to very so much against byb , took about 3 pm's and that problem was solved . And yet another time my dog got into a bunch of hamburger buns called on another against byb and that person was more than willing to help . I am preaching and need to shut up . Got but one other thing to say . If your dog is from a byb and you need help swallow a little pride knock the chip off your shoulder and ask the person you thought was the most arrogant here for help i guarantee they will help you your byb won't . I am gonna dive back below the trench line now heard one of those minature sonic booms snap past my ear .
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I have a pup from a byb too. I don't feel like people are against me when they talk about bybs, they're just telling the truth. Sometimes the truth hurts. You DID support a byb, that is the cold hard truth. Maybe it is that you are feeling some guilt over it. You can't expect people on the forum to tip-toe around the truth just because you want to feel good about your PURCHASE. Now I'm not trying to make you feel bad here, it's just the truth. You should most definitely stick around, when I first started on this forum I knew little of the BYB and it's mostly down to this forum (well, pretty much all) that I know anything of responsible breeding. It is pretty frustrating to a lot of people that you ignored the advice you got. You have to understand that most of us have seen the repercussions of supporting a byb, and they get frustrated when people come on the forum over and over, ignore advice, get the pup, then a few months later post a thread about how sick the pup is, or how nervous the pup is, or how aggressive the pup is.
I also agree their with Tylerthegiant, there are many MANY many good reasons NOT to go to a BYB but what she mentions, there is NO argument for that. I volunteer at a shelter and last time I was there I'd say 80% of dogs were purebred. About 6 Jack Russell Terriers (plus recently a litter of 4 or 5 jack russell puppies, tails docked and all), A Pom, A Husky, TWO german shepherd puppies (a white one and a normal coloured one), two older german shepherds, two dobermans, many greyhounds & whippets (can't even count the amount of them that come through anymore), an amstaff puppy, a yorkie, a lab and many lab xs, jeez the list just goes on and on, and I don't volunteer at the rehoming kennels JUST the treatment & cruelty so there is more I can't remember in rehoming I'm sure.
ETA: Just to add, yes of course reputable breeders get health problems. NO ONE is perfect. The difference is they do everything in their power to identify the problem BEFORE breeding, and if a problem arises they do everything to avoid it happening again. Even if a pup turns out perfectly healthy, that does not mean you haven't supported a byb, it means that you have funded their next litter where someone else could have the misfortune to land with an unhealthy puppy.Last edited by HarlequinHorror; 03-02-2012, 02:58 AM.sigpic
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