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  • Demodex vs clutzy puppy

    Moose is 7 months now.. A joy to have. I musn't have hit the teenager phase yet... However, he's got some bald spots on his body.. A few on his legs(one that I know is a skid injury) and one on his belly and another on his front chest...

    The demodex that I've ever seen has been SEVERE cases.. What does the start of it look like? Is there red bumps around the bald spot?

    Moose isn't itchy.. Not excessive.. I don't find him licking or chewing on these spots. Only one spot has some scabs around it.. and only within a 1 cm diameter around the baldness there is three tiny scabs so I'm sure its not a pyoderma..

    He plays like a clutz.. I know one time he was running full speed and jumped up onto the deck skidding... and another time he partially "fell off" the deck.. Yes it has rails- his leg went through them and he scrapped the hair off his leg then.

    Anyone with demodex experience able to tell me if your dog was extremely itchy at the start and only noticed a few bald spots.. None of the bald spots are for example on the Top of his body ie his head and his back.. Its all on areas where a clumsy puppy would get hurt.. Thank you.. Will try to get some pictures tonight.
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    CHDANTRYDANES SUNNY SIDE OF LIFE- "Moose"
    Born: April 10,2011

    FINISHED IN 1 WEEKEND
    Bitch-CHDANTRYDANES SHE'S A NATURAL
    Stud-CHDANTRYDANES OUT OF AZORES

  • #2
    Our Phineas picked up a minor bout of demodex at about 6 months old. I *thought* it was nicks between the fence and the shrub because he runs through there like a mad dog. But when one showed up on his forehead, LOL, we knew it wasn't. Plus, he can't take off fur every time he bumps himself.

    It took us 3 visits and 3 sets of skin scrapings to have it diagnosed. Our vet said it isn't always easy to find them .. especially in such a minor case.

    So......... Phineas had nickle size spots ... not totally bald, but sparse hair in those spots. The skin was red. Not scabby or anything.. just really red. Like a red bruise almost. His didn't bother him at all. He had a couple on his back, one on his neck, one on his head, a few on his legs and a couple between his toes. They were in a bit of a cycle... some would crop up, others looking to be going away. Then a few more.. so on and so forth.

    When I googled demodex, you just see these VERY bad cases. I couldn't find any with just a few spots like Phineas had.

    Anyway, our vet said it is very normal for a pup to show up with a mild case of demodex. They have immature immune systems and something can just push it over the edge. I believe that it was our treatment of yeastie ears with a steroid is what did it for Phineas.

    Our vets thought is pretty much along what I found googling. Don't treat it. We did give Phineas a round of antibiotics just to boost his immune system a bit and it did help. There are two thoughts to not treating demodex. The treatment for demodex is ugly. The dips (or wash.. or whatever they call it) is VERY harsh. The meds they can take are not good either. Secondly, you want to see if the puppy will clear it up himself. This is VERY important if you ever intend on breeding. Our vet said it was pretty usual to just let it run it's course, the immune system should kick in and fix it up. Only if it becomes a much bigger problem should you muck with it.

    You should get your vet to check it just to make sure it is the non contagious demodex and if it IS demodex to begin with. The clear sign for us was that he could have all these bumps and bruises from hard play but why does every one of them have fur missing? LOL It was too coincidental for us.

    I posted photos of some of his "spots" a while back.. let me see if I can find them.

    Good Luck!
    Last edited by Angel7292; 11-25-2011, 11:00 AM.
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    • #3
      Phineas is not fond of having his photo taken.. LOL. He gives me dirty "why are you doing this" looks.. I added the 5th photo of his annoyed look. Sorry for the bad yellowy photos. If I used a flash, you couldn't see the spot well. It's overcast today, so that is about the best they are going to get.

      I am posting several photos. However, the ones on the side and leg (just white fur photos) are almost gone. The skin isn't so red anymore and the hair is really growing back nicely. The one on his head was by far the worst one in terms of losing hair and being very red. Now - in the photo I just took today - it is still sparse hair and a bit red, but it's looking better. Just not as good as the rest of them yet.

      I also wanted to mention to you that if you google demodex, you will see that tea tree oil will kill them almost instantly... BUT.. it is *VERY* toxic to dogs when concentrated. Please .. please.. don't follow any advise on putting it on your dog in any concentrated form. I did find at Petco a Paul Mitchell dog shampoo (LOL) that has tea tree oil in it. Obviously it is in such a minute amount, that is not toxic. So we've been bathing him once a week with that too. If it helped, I dunno.. but he sure does smell good. Our vet said it is perfectly fine and harmless. It's when you buy it in the concentrated form at like the pharmacy or the feed store is when you should never put it on a dog.

      You can see in the 4th photo.. even from a distance.. the one on the top of his noggin is pretty obvious. They ALL looked very similiar.. just the head one isn't clearing so fast.

      I would get it checked out at the vet just to make sure it is demodex (or not) and it isn't going to spread on ya (contagious mange) although it doesn't sound like it... but be very wary about treating it. A healthy puppy SHOULD clear it all by himself. It just takes time. Our Phineas is only 7 months old... so we've had this for a month or so now. Aside from the one round of antibiotics just to give him an immune boost, it's really clearing up nicely!

      Hope he is just a clutzy puppy! My poor Phin is clutzy AND has demodex.. HAHA.
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      Last edited by Angel7292; 11-25-2011, 11:03 AM.
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      • #4
        Moose's spots aren't at all red except for the one that has the tiny scab.. Thank you for the pictures.. His looks nothing like that.. Honestly his hair is just missing. Not even sparse.. But just gone.. not even thinning but just like it was skidded off. Hard to explain. Will try to get pictures tonight..

        Thank you sooo much.. New spots have kept popping up within oh the past month and a half.. All began with the deck.. But i ususally notice them after a weekend of hard playing with 3 other 7 month old puppies.. He has puppy weekend dates sometimes.. So it wouldn't suprise me at all if these are just "rough" love spots
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        CHDANTRYDANES SUNNY SIDE OF LIFE- "Moose"
        Born: April 10,2011

        FINISHED IN 1 WEEKEND
        Bitch-CHDANTRYDANES SHE'S A NATURAL
        Stud-CHDANTRYDANES OUT OF AZORES

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Ellie&Moose View Post
          Moose's spots aren't at all red except for the one that has the tiny scab.. Thank you for the pictures.. His looks nothing like that.. Honestly his hair is just missing. Not even sparse.. But just gone.. not even thinning but just like it was skidded off. Hard to explain. Will try to get pictures tonight..

          Thank you sooo much.. New spots have kept popping up within oh the past month and a half.. All began with the deck.. But i ususally notice them after a weekend of hard playing with 3 other 7 month old puppies.. He has puppy weekend dates sometimes.. So it wouldn't suprise me at all if these are just "rough" love spots
          No problem.. happy to help! Glad to hear that they don't look like demodex. Keep an eye on them though. Some of Phin's were light and pink.. others got very red (like the head). They really just looked bruised like he was bumping into stuff. Which is what I thought it was. But I couldn't understand how he lost hair at every bump. LOL

          Phin only had one full bald spot and that was on his inside back leg (see attached photo). The rest were surely balding... but still had sparse pieces of hair. They weren't completely bald. Also, Phineas had them in spots that shouldn't have gotten bumped. Like up on his head, on his beck, under his neck. They come.. some go.. some more show up. It coincides with our treating the yeastie ears though.

          Sounds like some good ole' rough puppy play.
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          • #6
            Even the inside the leg one looks red though. Moose's are just his pigmented blue/grey skin if that makes sense. And all of his are in area's where he probably did just take a bad fall or corner.. For example the one on his belly is on his belly by his chest on the outside by his ribs..

            His favourite thing to do in the world is to go full blast into thick trees and shrubs.. And tall grass back in summer. I don't know if it tickles his belly or what but doing this always brings on Zoomies.. Thank you sooo much. Phineas is very handsome by the way!
            sigpic
            CHDANTRYDANES SUNNY SIDE OF LIFE- "Moose"
            Born: April 10,2011

            FINISHED IN 1 WEEKEND
            Bitch-CHDANTRYDANES SHE'S A NATURAL
            Stud-CHDANTRYDANES OUT OF AZORES

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            • #7
              This is somethings vet has to diagnose.
              Demodex happens in two forms, Localized and generalized.
              Hair does not grow back if new spots are appearing. If hair is growing back and new hairless spots appear he's failing or scraping hair off.
              Localized being the type with a small number of hairless spots, generalized being large areas of the body.
              Demodex is self limiting in almost all cases, treatment given is for dogs comfort since some but not all itch.
              Demodex mange is caused by naturally occurring mites breeding out of control.
              All dogs naturally have the mites, most have durable immune systems that keep them in control.
              Many pups get localized and it's often called puppy mange, they typically break out with it during times of stress, like getting new home, during rounds of shots, after time on medicine. It all has to do with immunity, so most pups get over it and never get it again, it'll get a spot during times of sickness/stress.
              Generalized is often the more wording type, and you want to treat it.
              Even dogs who get generalized typically build immunity.
              The worst kind of mange is when dogs inherit zero immunity to mange mites, treatment never truely works. They need treated repeatedly as any close contact with other dogs makes problem return.
              Puppies are born mite free but get them during close contact with dam.
              In very rare cases mites will infest humans often causing unexplained acne and red rash.
              The reason you want to seek a vet is sarcopic mange is very easy to transfer from pet to pet and pet to human.
              So get a skin scraping to insure proper diagnosis.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Ellie&Moose View Post
                Even the inside the leg one looks red though. Moose's are just his pigmented blue/grey skin if that makes sense. And all of his are in area's where he probably did just take a bad fall or corner.. For example the one on his belly is on his belly by his chest on the outside by his ribs..

                His favourite thing to do in the world is to go full blast into thick trees and shrubs.. And tall grass back in summer. I don't know if it tickles his belly or what but doing this always brings on Zoomies.. Thank you sooo much. Phineas is very handsome by the way!
                Yeah... they were red. Some less then others. Some just pink. Phineas is a very "pink" dog. As a puppy we were always amazed how pink his skin was. But even these spots stood out! A couple got deep red!

                When our vet was scraping his elbow and his neck and such... I woulnd't let them scrap a baldie spot into the top of his head. Keeping him pretty and all. Then it turned out to be the worst one (still!)... and it always looked like a big ole' cherry on the top back of his head.

                Sounds like your pup is just full of pep! Glad to hear it! Moose is only 7 days older than Phineas.. so I know whatcha mean about running in the bushes. Phineas likes to run between the fence and bushes though.. banging the whole way. Silly dogs!

                I think most demodex spots would look pretty similiar unless they are really bad that covers a large area. Sounds like you are probably in the clear. Just watch them though. Even if it was demodex, there isn't anything to really do for it in a pup Moose's age except to let it run its course.

                Troy-Leigh
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ellie&Moose View Post
                  Moose is 7 months now.. A joy to have. I musn't have hit the teenager phase yet... However, he's got some bald spots on his body.. A few on his legs(one that I know is a skid injury) and one on his belly and another on his front chest...

                  The demodex that I've ever seen has been SEVERE cases.. What does the start of it look like? Is there red bumps around the bald spot?

                  Moose isn't itchy.. Not excessive.. I don't find him licking or chewing on these spots. Only one spot has some scabs around it.. and only within a 1 cm diameter around the baldness there is three tiny scabs so I'm sure its not a pyoderma..

                  He plays like a clutz.. I know one time he was running full speed and jumped up onto the deck skidding... and another time he partially "fell off" the deck.. Yes it has rails- his leg went through them and he scrapped the hair off his leg then.

                  Anyone with demodex experience able to tell me if your dog was extremely itchy at the start and only noticed a few bald spots.. None of the bald spots are for example on the Top of his body ie his head and his back.. Its all on areas where a clumsy puppy would get hurt.. Thank you.. Will try to get some pictures tonight.
                  Harley came to us with demodex. She had spots. Atleast two of her littermates had it too. We randomly came across the owners of her littermate, and they told us about the severe case of demodex that her girl had, Harley had red skin and hairloss around her mouth, and her belly, but it never really got bad. Her sister lost a LOAD of hair on her face, she had it so badly. The difference between the two is that all the puppies came home with coccidia but with Harley we caught it early (within the first week) and fixed it, so Harley's immune system could deal with it better, whereas her sister's wasn't. They contined to have very bad flare ups every so often until her immune system was better. Harley no longer has any traces of demodex. I would ask the breeder for help and if they have had any of the other puppies with it.
                  Just to note the scraping at the vet came up negative for the first scrape, and the second time it came up positive, so that can happen.
                  Hope this helps...
                  Last edited by HarlequinHorror; 11-25-2011, 12:31 PM.
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by HarlequinHorror View Post
                    Just to note the scraping at the vet came up negative for the first scrape, and the second time it came up positive, so that can happen.
                    Hope this helps...
                    Glad to Harley is doing much better and is demodex free! Sounds like you were able to catch her other problems fast enough to keep it in check!

                    I am 99.9% certain that the yeastie ear treatment is stirring it up with Phineas. Treat the yeast, the spots start coming back. Treat the spots, the yeastie ears are back. We are finally trying another yeastie ear med that is steroid free.. but it is like water and he spends all day shaking his head.. grrr. He has such large dumbo ears, I swear he is going to shake that head and fly away!

                    It took us 3 scrapings to come up positive. PITA! LOL
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                    • #11
                      Keep in mind it might depend on what color skin your puppy has too. Deuce had demodex when he was a puppy as well with hairless patches just like you are describing. Don't remember them being particularly itchy or red either. Here is a pic from when he was a puppy showing some of his bare patches on his legs. He did also get some thin fur and a small bare patch or two on the top of his head.

                      Tamara and Deuce
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                      • #12
                        My bully had it starting at about 6 months. She had absolutely no itching. She only had a few dime sized bald/thinning spots. I obsessed about it much more than I should have. I put her on grainfree in case she also had grain issues. Used BPO3 shampoo, probably unnecessarily. It lasted a good 8 months, but never progressed any worse than that.

                        I did take her to the vet to confirm the diagnosis with scrapes. Her case was a mild one that she simply needed time to 'grow out' of.
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                        Deb

                        Duke and Ivy

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                        • #13
                          You can always try Goodwinol on very small spots of Demodex. It's an approved treatment for non-generalized demodex, is easy to do, and is topical so no systemic side effects.

                          I would have them scraped to get a for sure diagnosis.
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                          Crystal
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DextersMomma View Post
                            You can always try Goodwinol on very small spots of Demodex. It's an approved treatment for non-generalized demodex, is easy to do, and is topical so no systemic side effects.

                            I would have them scraped to get a for sure diagnosis.

                            We got the Goodwinol ointment from the vet too. Phineas wouldn't stop licking it that day, so we aren't using it. Buck, our pit, was even licking Phineas over that stuff (not sure why, it smells bad!). His are clearing up super nicely on their own.. except that one on his head and a few on the toesies!
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                            • #15
                              Goodwinal did nothing for ivy.
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                              Deb

                              Duke and Ivy

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