acupuncture question

[Shamu]

if you tried acupuncture with your dog, how the dog reacted? Does it hurt the dog?
And is it normal to see NO improvement, or the problem even getting worse after the very first treatment?

thanks!

[elisapierce]

Hello,
whats going on with your dog, I have used acupuncture and its not instant as my dogs back legs were giving out and eventually did, I did see results as it did relax my dog and give him pain reduction, what results are you seeing with yours?

[samantha63]

we have an acupuncture specialist at the clinic i used to work at, and while i have not used it personally on my dogs i have seen MANY of the rehab dogs improve after a few sessions. it takes some longer than others though. i havent ever seen a negative effect from doing it, nor have i seen a dog react painfully while the needles are administered.

what are the issues you are having??

[rahime]

if you tried acupuncture with your dog, how the dog reacted? Does it hurt the dog?
And is it normal to see NO improvement, or the problem even getting worse after the very first treatment?

thanks!

Brembo's had acupuncture 4 or 5 times. The first time she lay quietly for it and napped for the 20-30 min while the needles were in. The second time she jumped a bit when one of the needles went in (a "zinger"--must have hit a nerve). Since then, she tries to hide or get out the door every time we go to the acupuncture vet (and this girl LOVES going to the vet, she seriously does even after misc. procedures, surgery, stitches, staples, skin scrapings, biopsies, etc.). There's a little end table in the office where we go, and her head barely fits under it, but she tries to crawl under the table or she'll jump up and stand by the door. Usually, though, once the needles are in, she'll sit on my lap for a bit and then lay down on the floor.

I don't think I've really seen particular results from the acupuncture (though I can't be 100% sure). I do have a friend whose Dane gets acupuncture for spinal arthritis, and you can literally see his topline get straighter over the couple of days following his treatments and looks pretty straight after 3 or 4 days, lasting a few weeks. Before his treatment, there's a dip in his topline and it looks like it's weak.

[Shamu]

she was whining when vet was putting the needles. Normally she doesn't whine, so I guess it was hurting her? Vet tried smaller needles first, and then used the smallest, needles that they usually use on cats.

and she was pretty nervous and was trying to turn back and get the needles out for all 15 minutes. She was standing, she didn't want to lay down

So I wonder if this is her being so sensitive, or the vet isn't doing it right? (Vet is certified in veterinary acupuncture)

[samantha63]

sometimes they can be a little nervous, putting needles into their bodies is not a "normal" feeling. the needles arent supposed to hurt, and if the vet is certified in acupuncture im sure they are putting them in correctly.

was this her first treatment? and what is she being treated for?

[Shamu]

yes that was the very first treatment. spinal problem, either degenerative disk or IVDD, I'm not sure what's the difference is and if it is different

(Shamu, what would you do next? and should I even mention a broken tail on top of that?_

[samantha63]

i have seen many dogs get acupuncture for degenerative disk diseases. it has done a lot of good for them but i know that typically our patients were also being treated with non steroidal anti-inflamatories (deramaxx) and pain meds (tramadol) on top of that some of them (not all) would get rehab sessions which were hydro therapy, underwater treadmill and 15 minutes in the electro-stimulation hydro tank, along with dry infrared laser and massage therapy.

but those that also added in the acupuncture seemed to see results faster. i would keep trying it, see how her next session goes. it may take some getting used to and it will take a few sessions to see improvement.

is she on any pain management meds? has she seemed to regress since her first session? and what did the vet say about her whining?

[rahime]

I guess I would ask how the vet responded and what his/her thoughts were about how Shamu responded.

Brembo didn't whine at all--once or twice she's jumped a little or winced if it didn't go in right, but 90% of the time she acts like she doesn't even feel it.

I'd think degenerative disc problems would be an appropriate thing for acupuncture to treat though. Did she show any sign of improvement or anything after? With Brembo, now when I take her in I treat her pretty heavily. She'll sometimes shake a needle out of her head, but she doesn't usually actively try to get them out. She does act nervous though.

[DebinSD]

I did acupuncture with my first Dane Bristol for 4 years. It helped her tremendously.

This was back in the late 90's. She had spondylosis in her lower lumbar vertabrae. We tried rimadyl at first, but her liver values started going up so I took her off of it.

She absolutely LOVED going to acupuncture. At first, we went once a week. This probably went on for about 3 months. I didn't notice an improvement until we'd gone to a few treatments. After the first 3 months, we started going every other week...then every 3 weeks...and eventually we only had to go once every 6 months. Before using acupuncture on Bristol, I was skeptical. Figured the reason acupuncture worked on people was because of the placebo effect. Once I saw how much it helped her, I was a complete believer.

From my experience (both with Bristol and going for myself), the needles should not hurt. Maybe you need to find someone with more experience?

[kahluadanes]

if you tried acupuncture with your dog, how the dog reacted? Does it hurt the dog?
And is it normal to see NO improvement, or the problem even getting worse after the very first treatment?

thanks!

Yes did acupuncture with one of my Danes for 4 years. It does not hurt the dog at all. It is very normal to see no improvement or a worsening after the very first treatment. A good vet acupuncturist will tell you this when they consult with you before the first treatment.

I highly recommend acupuncture.

[kahluadanes]

she was whining when vet was putting the needles. Normally she doesn't whine, so I guess it was hurting her? Vet tried smaller needles first, and then used the smallest, needles that they usually use on cats.

and she was pretty nervous and was trying to turn back and get the needles out for all 15 minutes. She was standing, she didn't want to lay down

So I wonder if this is her being so sensitive, or the vet isn't doing it right? (Vet is certified in veterinary acupuncture)

It is not unusual at all for a dog to be nervous, whiney, anxious, etc during the first couple of treatments. It is all new to them and they have no idea what's going on. Initially Hailey was anxious and wouldn't lay down, but then she couldn't wait to go to her sessions. She would go in and lay down and get very relaxed. She very much enjoyed her sessions. At first they lasted @ a week and gradually got to every other and eventually she only needed the treatments every three- four months.

I see many dogs helped by acupuncture all the time. Like I said I highly recommend it. It gave my Hailey 4 good years. Hailey was a wobbler dog.