allergy -a question about prescription food or elimination diet?

[Shamu]

If you tried Prescription food or elimination diet, how long did it actually took before you saw any improvements? I know that theoretically it can take up to 6 weeks to see results; but she is on Prescription food for 2 weeks, and I don't see ANY improvements. In fact, her allergy is getting worse. So I wonder if it makes any sense to keep her on it any longer; or does it prove that it isn't FOOD allergy?

[GoingPostal]

3 months is how long you are supposed to stay on it. No treats (unless they are the same as the diet, no flavored heartworm meds, no people food. It can take weeks for allergy reactions to clear their systems in some cases. What food are you trying? What makes you think it is food allergies? Enviromental are much more common.

[Shamu]

3 months is how long you are supposed to stay on it. No treats (unless they are the same as the diet, no flavored heartworm meds, no people food. It can take weeks for allergy reactions to clear their systems in some cases. What food are you trying? What makes you think it is food allergies? Enviromental are much more common.

I know that it can take 6+weeks until the allergies clears. I'm asking for people who tried it, how long it took to see at least a small improvement. In their experience.

I don't know if this is food allergies - this is what I'm trying to figure out. It could be environment.

She is on Hills Ultra Z/D (please, no comments about 'quality' of this food. I know it all already. I just want to find out if her allergy is to protein - Z/D has hydrolyzed protein that should not cause allergy; or it's environment)

[DextersMomma]

I will for warn you that I am not a fan of Z/D because it is not a novel protein diet, just takes chicken protein and cuts it up in to small pieces to hopefully evade the immune system. If your pup has a chicken allergy (one of the most common protein allergies), that may be why things are getting worse. Before you can rule out food allergy as a component, if the Z/D doesn't work, I would try a Natural Balance novel protein diet or the hill's D/D.

Most people start to see things getting better by month 2 or 3, and you may not be seeing improvements yet especially if you did a slow switch.

HTH!

[Shamu]

I will for warn you that I am not a fan of Z/D because it is not a novel protein diet, just takes chicken protein and cuts it up in to small pieces to hopefully evade the immune system. If your pup has a chicken allergy (one of the most common protein allergies), that may be why things are getting worse. Before you can rule out food allergy as a component, if the Z/D doesn't work, I would try a Natural Balance novel protein diet or the hill's D/D.

Most people start to see things getting better by month 2 or 3, and you may not be seeing improvements yet especially if you did a slow switch.

HTH!

I'm confused.. what I was told and read about Ultra Z/D, that because of hydrolyzed protein, which has smaller molecular mass, immune system should not react to it. So it will be the way to find out if the allergy is to protein, or other things.. If that's not the case, I guess there is no reason to keep her on this food? We switched cold-turnkey, and she is not getting anything besides this food. Which makes it really hard, because she is a very picky eater, so she doesn't eat much.

as for Natural Balance or other novel protein - we tried it and it did not help. And I believe she tried every possible protein source already, so there is no novel protein left.

[faust]

What about rabbit with tapioca as a binder rather then grains or potatoes. Instinct Rabbit would be worth looking at.

[Shamu]

Kris, thank you for trying to help - but I'm serious, there is no novel protein source left.. I checked every single dry food formula -she had at least 1 protein from each of them. (Instinct Rabbit has salmon)

So the only way to check if this is food or not food allergy, is food with hydrolyzed protein. Or at least this is how I understood it; because protein has smaller molecular mass, immune system doesn't recognize it as protein, and doesn't react. If this is not how it works, I would just put her back on raw, and consider doing skin allergy test (which I don't want to do because they need to sedate her for this. Plus food trial would be significantly less expensive. And there is nothing I can change about environment allergy anyway)

[faust]

So the only way to check if this is food or not food allergy, is food with hydrolyzed protein.

Unfortunately, that is not true and if your vet repersented it as such that is irresponsible. The main problem with hydrolyzed protein food sources (other then, significant lack of nutrition, lack of palatability, etc) is the persistence of allergic reactions. This diet does not assure you that your pet does not have a food allergy, not to mention you your allergy is getting worse since the start of this food. While they do work in some cases there are also many other cases that dogs have continued to have allergenic reactions with hydolyzed proteins.

Could it be enviromental, yes, but now there is even more evidence it could be food related. What kind of reactions is Shamu having? I remember you tried to feed raw for a bit and home cooked when you were doing that exclusively did you find anything that Shamu did not react to? While I understand you have tried every novel protein out there, I am curious about all the other factors. I.e. she could very well be allergic to chicken as a protein source, but she could also be alllergic to for example potatoes(not saying she is but for using it as an example) when you switched her to off chicken to a different protein source you eliminate one allergen but unknowingly introduce another. Yet, since you cannot recognize what is causing the reaction, as there are so many ingredients in kibble, you assume it is a protein reaction.

I know it is expensive and I know this is a battle you have been fighting for a long time, but I would put some money aside over the next few months and do a solid allergy test. While no test is 100%, it will give you a good baseline and stop the guessing that has been going on for so very long.

[rahime]

I'm so sorry to hear you're still dealing with these allergy problems. I know how frustrating it is. Brembo was seeming to do really well, but in the last few weeks she's been itching a lot again and had more hair loss. I can't figure out what's wrong.

Have you tried or considered trying acupuncture for allergy elimination? I've heard that it can completely eliminate allergies or drastically reduce them. We haven't tried it yet, but are thinking about that next. We've also been seeing a homeopathic vet.

Sorry, no answers, but I really hope you find something that works for your baby!

[Shamu]

Kris, thank you for info on hydrolyzed protein; I guess I'll get her off this food. Not only she is licking her paws as usual; she is itching, and her eyes are watery, and she has loose stool, and she has pimples all over her body (pimples started before we started food trial but it got a lot worse; I guess I have to put her on antibiotics..)

to answer your questions:

she has 2 types of allergic reactions:
One type I KNOW is food - itching and watery eyes. This is her reaction to chicken and fish, so I know she is allergic to those.

on most of other types of meat, she is not itching and her eyes are fine. But she is licking her feet. This started last summer, and was getting better and worse since that. Never really stopped completely for more than a few days. Switching to raw, and feeding only 1 protein source for 2-3 weeks didn't help.

And it was worse during rains (fun of living in CA when it's raining all winter long)
I suspect it is environment, but food trial was like a last try to check if, by any chance, it is food. I can change her food, but I can't do anything about pollens.

Allergy test will be a way to figure it out, but they need to sedate her to do the test; I don't want to do it now. And she has to be off antihistamines before the test, but she got skin infection again, so I can't take her off medicine until it clears out.

rahime, so sorry to hear that your girl is itching again. I though raw helped her. Maybe feeding her only tripe again will help again?

We saw holistic vet too, and got some herbs. Maybe those herbs can help - but Shamu had bad diarrhea from it, so I just can't give it to her! (Vet said that yes some dogs had this kind of reaction to herbs). We haven't tried acupuncture - if you decide to do it, please let me know if it works

[crdane]

We went through the same thing with our Reilly. We believe he is actually allergic to one of the nutrition addititive that they use in all the foods. He did tolerate the ZD food, but he was 10 months old and lost 5 lbs on it. We used it as a between food, to allow his system to rest, until we tried a new food, which he would promptly react to. We now have him on raw without a problem, for months. I tried to add Nupro hip supplement formula to his diet last week, and now he has an ear infection. Can't use that. We can give him straight MSM and glucosomine without a problem, so it was one of the other ingredients that caused it.

[firef2005]

[QUOTE=Shamu;540086]Kris, thank you for trying to help - but I'm serious, there is no novel protein source left.. I checked every single dry food formula -she had at least 1 protein from each of them. (Instinct Rabbit has salmon)

We are pretty much in the same boat with Titan. I think we may have one or two protein sources left, but the Z/D is working. It would not have been my choice to feed him this food, but if it works, it works. You are correct in thinking that with a novel protein source, the animal should not react to it. Hydrolyzed proteins mask themselves and are not recognized as protein by the body. That should eliminate any issues with the protein source. Titan was on Z/D for about 8 weeks before we really started seeing any improvement. Initially we did notice that his weight loss stopped, but it took months to get the weight back on. Even though, like I said, this is not a food I would choose to feed, he looks great now. Shiny coat, no bones sticking out, etc. I would stick with the food. Give it plenty of time to work. I PM'd you.

[will]

If you tried Prescription food or elimination diet, how long did it actually took before you saw any improvements? I know that theoretically it can take up to 6 weeks to see results; but she is on Prescription food for 2 weeks, and I don't see ANY improvements. In fact, her allergy is getting worse. So I wonder if it makes any sense to keep her on it any longer; or does it prove that it isn't FOOD allergy?

My two guys were horribly chewing themselves bloody for months and after about 19 million dollars on vets, foods, etc., we finally tried ZD just to get them cleared up as a last resort - should have been my first resort. Anyway, it didn't do a thing until week 3, then blamo, their bodies which were basically one huge itch zone started going away. So, give it at least 3 weeks. I kept feeding it until my girl was totally not itchy and my boy was about 90% not itchy which was about 6 weeks. Then, I started to experiemnt with kibbles and have been able to use the ZD as a crutch when needed. Keep at it, it will work. If not, at least you know you don't have a food allergy.

[Shamu]

thanks everyone who replied! I see that 2 weeks is not enough for food to work, but I looked at her today, and got turkey from the freezer... Poor girl never looked as bad before; her eyes are red, with tear stains; her muzzle is all in pimples and they're bleeding, she got pimples on her back, and since starting Z/D, her stool was never firm.. And I can see all her ribs again (not that she was fat before ) Her feet licking (original problem) seems to be better, but she is on antihistamines, and it wasn't rainy, so at this point it's impossible to tell if the food helps with it, or medicine, or the weather. I guess next step would be an allergy test..

[crdane]

Shamu, it sounds like you are dealing with food AND environmental allergies. Reilly had a systemic staph infection from his immune system being so screwed up. He was on antibiotics for three months along with the ZD. He was also getting two baths a week with a prescription shampoo for the entire three months, and I had an ointment to put on all his sore spots. We waited until he was completely clear to try anything, which took the three month time frame. I went through several different foods to try before deciding to do raw. Thank God, the raw worked. He reacts to every kibble. Here is what I am thinking. Even if your dog is getting better, the medicine treatment must continue to clear the system. If you do antibiotics for only two weeks, you may not be killing whatever is causing this.