3 year rabies vaccine

[bluebeetlemom]

I had Ivy to the vet today for her shots. This is the first shots after she finished her initial puppy series last year, as well as her rabies last September. I did the one year distemper that also had the same 3 other things in it as she had last year. I did not do the lepto or lymes or corona that they recommended. They offered me the option of doing a 3 year distemper, said that folks often do a 3 year distemper and a one year rabies, or a one year distemper and a 3 year rabies. They said they don't recommend the 3 year distemper and 3 year rabies at the same time as it's too much vaccine at once. Since I will be thinking long and hard about further distempers in her future, yet need the rabies to get her a dog park permit, I decided on the 1 year distemper and 3 year rabies. But I realized as I was discussing it with the vet that I hadn't done any research as to the advisability of doing a 3 year rabies. Does anyone have any opinions on the 3 year versus the one year? I realize it's too late now, but I am curious.

[Amiabull]

Just to give you an example, in our clinic the 3 year and 1 year distemper combo and rabies are the exact same vaccine. We give 2-3 distemper combos 4 weeks apart to puppies depending on age, booster one year from last puppy shot then every three years. The first rabies is given at 4 months or older and is good for one year then the booster is good for 3 years. I know some of the other clinics in our area say the rabies booster is only good for 2 years but it is actually rated for 3. I think you would be perfectly safe doing both vaccines at three year intervals or only the rabies from now on (which is what I do). We send reminders every year for a physical exam though.

[3XDaneMom]

I was told by my vet that 1yr and 3y are the same vaccine on both. Once the imune system gets the first vac and builds the resistance a booster is only needed every 3 years after. All mine get 3y on both and have no issues. It sounds more like your vet wants to make more money off you, but that is JMO.

[lwrees72]

I personally would never do a distemper and a rabies vac on the same day. I would have done 3yrs on both and had them spaced at least 3-4 weeks apart.

[bluebeetlemom]

I personally would never do a distemper and a rabies vac on the same day. I would have done 3yrs on both and had them spaced at least 3-4 weeks apart.

That's what I had planned on doing, but when I went to make the first appointment in August, they said they would charge me an office call then, as well as for one when I brought her in Sept. for the rabies. This really disappointed me, as I have been happy with this new vet, but, unfortunately, finances made the decision for me on this one.

[lwrees72]

That is too bad, I told my vet I wanted to wait 3 wks after the last booster before bordatella, she said no problem I will just charge you $15 for the bordatella. Now I will wait til at least 6 months, if not 9 months before administering the rabies vac, so I expect to pay an office visit for that. That said there are mobile clinics or even feed store clinics that will do rabies shots for like $12-15.

[humbug]

I was told by my vet that 1yr and 3y are the same vaccine on both.

The 3 yr vaccine IS the same dose as the 1 yr. Serology/titer tests have proven that many vaccines give protection for many years beyond what the general public is lead to believe. If your dog still has immunity from a vaccine, to revaccinate gives NO added benefit BUT dog still has same percentage of adverse reactions. Spreading vaccines to a 3 yr protocol is the least they could do.

I never let vet give multiple vaccines. I spread them out. It's tough on a dog's system.

[DextersMomma]

agreed : the 3 year and 1 year rabies vax are the exact same vaccine. It has yet to be proven that the distemper builds enough immunity to make it a 3 year vaccine. In fact, I have seen well vaccinated dogs come up with no protective immunity to distemper or parvo (we offer titers at my clinic).

In your area, I would not be surprised if Lepto was a problem. I would maybe look further into that (went to school in MO and we saw at least half dozen proven lepto cases, others were suspect). HTH!

[Sparrow]

I've had the unfortunate dilema of dealing with uninformed rabies "clinic" workers who think that a rabies vaccine can't be good for 3 years unless the last shot hasn't expired. So if your dog had a 3 year RV on May 20, 2006, and you go to have another on May 21, 2009 that one will only be good for 1 year because the other one "expired". Then they write on the form that it's a one year shot and when you have to license them you need another shot the very next year to keep them "current". It makes it worth it to get it done at the vet's where at least they know that if your dog has ever even had at least one rabies vax every subsequent rabies vax is techinically good for 3 years, even if the last one "expires". So annoying though for those without a ton of cash. And rambly! Sorry!

[cailinarun]

That's what I had planned on doing, but when I went to make the first appointment in August, they said they would charge me an office call then, as well as for one when I brought her in Sept. for the rabies. This really disappointed me, as I have been happy with this new vet, but, unfortunately, finances made the decision for me on this one.

Most states generally require rabies shots to be given by a vet (or a certified clinic). However, you can purchase and administer the distemper vaccine yourself to save the cost of an office visit (check to make sure that your kennel/training class will accept the receipt for a distemper vaccine as proof of immunization first!). I've found that just by mentioning that to save money, you'll immunize for ______ yourself generally gets the vet to offer to give the shot without charging for an office visit. Look at it this way- the vet buys big batches of vaccine. If all that vaccine doesn't get used, then the vet technically LOSES money on that batch (or simply doesn't make as much profit).

[ouesi]

agreed : the 3 year and 1 year rabies vax are the exact same vaccine. It has yet to be proven that the distemper builds enough immunity to make it a 3 year vaccine.

Hmmmmm
Well, Bates is due for rabies and distemper on October 25th - I was going to do the 3 year on both, but now you've got me reconsidering the distemper....
I was going to ask for bordatella also since he will be in a group class - they don't require it, but I though I'd err on the side of caution. Now Logan has me rethinking that one too.
And now as far as spacing, I'm not sure either...!!!!
Ah..... to be ignorant and uninformed....

[kahluadanes]

There is absolutely no reason to do a distemper/parvo vaccine yearly, nor is it recommended to do it yearly. After the booster a year after the last puppy vaccine it should not be done any more often then every 3 years. Actually it has been proven taht this vaccine is really good for the life of the dog and not needed again. My dogs never receive it again after that booster.

As for rabies it must be done by law in your area, however the reality is it should not be done any more often then every 3 years.

A rabies vaccine should never be given at the same time as any other vaccine. it should be given a minimum of 2 weeks after.

Lepto is not recommended for all dogs only those at high risk of exposure and even then only after careful consideration. This vaccine has the highest rate of severe reaction of any vaccine. If you own a Toy breed or a Dane (there are also some other breeds & their mixes that are ultra sensative) it would be very wise not ot ever give lepto.
Coronavirus is not recommended for any dog/puppy ever.

All vets in the US are well aware of the protocol & recommendations but many turn a blind eye to them.

I'm fortunate the vets I work for stay current. I'm also fortunate that I just finsihed a refresher in immunology and attended a wonderful vaccine seminar given by Dr Richard Ford and got some wonderful info. It just reinforced what I had been doing for my own dogs.
Dale

[DextersMomma]

Dale, would you mind posting the info you have on vaccinating every 3 years with Distemper/Parvo? I have not come across any research proving immunity is guaranteed to last; or even that some dogs develop the proper immunity.

It's not that I turn a blind eye, it's the lack of substantial research and seeing well vaccinated dogs (yearly vaccinated for years) come back with no protective titer that prevents me from offering it as a 3 year vaccine.

Thanks!

[lurchmom]

Dextersmomma,

How about the following info? If you have seen dogs who are "well vaccinated" yearly and have no protective titer, it is obviously an issue with THAT animal which no amount of vaccination is helping. Seems it wouldn't matter if they had been vaccinated every 3 years or never, if they simply don't respond to it. The majority of dogs will mount a protective immune response and in these majority of cases, studies do indeed show multi year protection.



>>> Dr. Ronald Schultz, Chairman of Pathobiological Sciences at the University of Wisconsin School of Veterinary Medicine, is at the forefront of vaccine research and is one of the world’s leading authorities on veterinary vaccines. His challenge study results form the scientific base of the American Animal Hospital Association’s (AAHA) 2003 Canine Vaccine Guidelines, Recommendations, and Supporting Literature (Attachment 7). These studies are based on science – they are not arbitrary. The public, however, cannot access this data. The American Animal Hospital Association only makes this report available to veterinarians, not private citizens, and Maine’s pet owners are unaware that the AAHA Guidelines state on Page 18 that: “We now know that booster injections are of no value in dogs already immune, and immunity from distemper infection and vaccination lasts for a minimum of 7 years based on challenge studies and up to 15 years (a lifetime) based on antibody titer.” They further state that hepatitis and parvovirus vaccines have been proven to protect for a minimum of 7 years by challenge and up to 9 and 10 years based on antibody count. So, unless the Legislature passes LD429 requiring veterinarians to provide vaccine disclosure forms, dog owners who receive an annual, biennial, or triennial reminders for booster shots will not know that nationally-accepted scientific studies have demonstrated that animals are protected a minimum of 7 years after vaccination with the distemper, parvovirus, and adenovirus-2 vaccines (see Page 12 AAHA 2003 Guidelines attached, and Table 1, Pages 3 and 4).

"My own pets are vaccinated once or twice as pups and kittens, then never again except for rabies,” Wall Street Journal reporter Rhonda L. Rundle quoted Dr. Ronald Schultz in a July 31, 2002 article entitled Annual Pet Vaccinations may be Unnecessary, Fatal (Attachment 2). Dr. Schultz knows something the pet-owning public doesn’t – he knows there’s no benefit in overvaccinating animals because immunity is not enhanced, but the risk of harmful adverse reactions is increased. He also knows that most core veterinary vaccines are protective for at least seven years, if not for the lifetime of the animal.

The first entry under Appendix 2 of the AAHA Guidelines (Attachment 7) “Important Vaccination ‘Do’s and Don’ts” is “Do Not Vaccinate Needlessly – Don’t revaccinate more often than is needed and only with the vaccines that prevent diseases for which that animal is at risk.” They also caution veterinarians: “Do Not Assume that Vaccines Cannot Harm a Patient – Vaccines are potent medically active agents and have the very real potential of producing adverse events.” Very few pet owners have had this disclosed to them.

The AVMA’s Principles of Vaccination (Attachment 6) states that “Unnecessary stimulation of the immune system does not result in enhanced disease resistance, and may increase the risk of adverse post-vaccination events.” (page 2) They elaborate by reporting that: “Possible adverse events include failure to immunize, anaphylaxis, immunosuppression, autoimmune disorders, transient infections, and/or long-term infected carrier states. In addition, a causal association in cats between injection sites and the subsequent development of a malignant tumor is the subject of ongoing research.”(Page 2)

Referring to adverse reactions from vaccines, the Wall Street Journal article cited above (Attachment 2) reports: “In cats there has been a large increase in hyperthyroidism and cancerous tumors between the shoulder blades where vaccines typically are injected.” With modified live virus vaccines (distemper, parvovirus, hepatitis), some animals can actually contract the same disease which they are being inoculated against. If the public knew an animal’s immunity to disease is not increased by overvaccination, they would certainly not consent to expose their pets to potential harm by giving them excessive booster shots.

Veterinary vaccines are potent biologic drugs – most having proven durations of immunity much longer than the annual, biennial or triennial booster frequencies recommended by vaccine manufacturers and veterinarians. They also carry the very real risk of serious adverse side affects and should not be administered more often than necessary to maintain immunity.

The extended durations of immunity for vaccines is not “new” or “recent” science as some members of the Maine Veterinary Medical Association (MVMA) have claimed. AAHA reveals on Page 2 of their Guidelines that ideal reduced vaccination protocols were recommended by vaccinology experts beginning in 1978. A Veterinary Practice News article entitled “Managing Vaccine Changes” (Attachment 3) by veterinarian Dennis M. McCurnin, reports that: “Change has been discussed for the past 15 years and now has started to move across the country."

According to a September 1, 2004 article in the DVM veterinary news magazine (Attachment 1), the 312 member Maine Veterinary Medical Association (MVMA) “champions full disclosure of vaccine information to pet owners.” MVMA president, Dr. Bill Bryant, is quoted as stating: “Its time for something like this to come out … disclosure forms will be an important resource to have available, [and] if it goes before the Legislature, we’d likely support it.”


Optimal immune responses are obtained by vaccines administered singly three to four weeks apart rather than in combination shots. Single vaccine administration also reduces the likelihood of adverse events as well as increasing the animal’s immune response. Only healthy animals should be vaccinated.

Except for the rabies vaccine, manufacturers’ labeled revaccination recommendations are based on limited scientific data and do not contain information on the vaccine’s maximum duration of immunity. The tables below contain the minimum duration of immunity data from the canine vaccine studies performed by Dr. Ronald Schultz, Professor and Chair of the Pathobiological Sciences Department at the University of Wisconsin School of Veterinary Medicine, which form the scientific base of the American Animal Hospital’s 2003 Canine Vaccine Guidelines, Recommendations, and Supporting Literature.

__________________________________________________ _______________________________________

Table 1: Minimum Duration of Immunity for Canine Vaccines

Vaccine Minimum Duration Methods Used to

Of Immunity Determine Immunity

Canine Distemper Virus (CDV)

Rockborn Strain 7 years/15 years challenge/serology
Onderstepoort Strain 5 years/9 years challenge/serology
Canine Adenovirus-2 (CAV-2) 7 years/9 years challenge-CAV-1/serology
Canine Parvovirus-2 (CPV-2) 7 years challenge/serology

Canine Rabies 3 years/7 years challenge/serology

Data from Duration of Immunity to Canine Vaccines: What we know and Don’t Know by Dr. Ronald D. Schultz, Professor and Chair, Department of Pathobiological Sciences at the University of Wisconsin School of Veterinary Medicine.

Note: Challenge studies are those in which an animal is vaccinated, isolated for a number of years, and then injected with high doses of virulent virus to test its immunity to disease. Serology is the method of counting antibody levels in the blood to determine an animal’s immunity.

Duration of Immunity: The Rabies Vaccine Challenge - Show #185 Animal Talk Radio Show 7/30/08 http://www.blogtalkradio.com/animaltalk ... e-Show-186

Duration of Immunity to Canine Vaccines: What We Know and Don't Know, Dr. Ronald Schultz http://www.cedarbayvet.com/duration_of_immunity.htm

What Everyone Needs to Know about Canine Vaccines, Dr. Ronald Schultz
http://www.puliclub.org/CHF/AKC2007Conf ... ccines.htm

Vaccination: An Overview Dr. Melissa Kennedy, DVM360 http://veterinarycalendar.dvm360.com/av ... ?id=568351

World Small Animal Veterinary Association 2007 Vaccine Guidelines http://www.wsava.org/SAC.htm Scroll down to Vaccine Guidelines 2007 (PDF)

The 2003 American Animal Hospital Association's Canine Vaccine Guidelines are accessible online at http://www.leerburg.com/special_report.htm .

The 2006 American Animal Hospital Association's Canine Vaccine Guidelines are downloadable in PDF format at http://www.aahanet.org/PublicDocumen...s06Revised.pdf .

Veterinarian, Dr. Robert Rogers,has an excellent presentation on veterinary vaccines at http://www.newvaccinationprotocols.com/

October 1, 2002 DVM Newsletter article entitled, AVMA, AAHA to Release Vaccine Positions, http://www.dvmnewsmagazine.com/dvm/arti ... p?id=35171

July 1, 2003 DVM Newsletter article entitled, What Do We Tell Our Clients?, Developing thorough plan to educate staff on changing vaccine protocols essential for maintaining solid relationships with clients and ensuring quality care http://www.dvmnewsmagazine.com/dvm/arti ... p?id=61696

[humbug]

Excellent Lurchmom!

Much of the above post was prepared by Kris L. Christine, Founder, Co-Trustee of the THE RABIES CHALLENGE FUND. Kris is a member here. If you put her name in search you can read many of her posts. Very passionate and determined to educate on vaccine protocol, adverse reactions, and vaccine durations!