DCM ~ Anyone been through it

[Maliha]

My Christopher was just diagnosed with DCM by a cardiologist in Toronto. I have to say, in a 2 yr old Dane, it wasn't expected quite so young. I was just curious if anyone else on here has dealt with it and how you chose to proceed. No judgement here as I am genuinely heart-broken. Although he is responding to medications, there are some tough decisions that need to be made so if anyone could offer me information on how long your dane survived post-diagnosis I would really appreciate it.

[Charlene]

i'm so sorry you got this diagnosis. i lost a dane boy to DCM just over a year ago. samson was a rescue, got him at 3 years old. a short 7 months later, i noticed some coughing and he stopped eating. took him right in to the vet thinking he just had a virus. his heartbeat was "all over the place" in my vet's words. set up an appointment for him for the following week to have a cardiac ultrasound done.

within just a few days and just prior to the ultrasound, he went downhill very fast. the only thing i could get him to eat was strained baby food meat and he would drink vanilla ensure. we went for the ultrasound and the vet told me that samson's heart was in full blown atrial fibrillation and his heart was simply fluttering rather than beating. both my vet and the cardio vet discussed options with me, none of which were at all hopeful.

between the 3 of us, it was decided that it would be best to go ahead and lay him to rest. my poor boy was so weak and had so much trouble just breathing, i could not let it go on. i live alone and am very isolated. the vets both told me he only had days left, if that, and that he could die at any moment. i did not want it to happen at home especially since i was still working part time and was away from home a couple of days a week. it was an agonizing decision but one that i simply could not avoid.

of course, there are medications that can help if the condition is caught early. here is a link to a thread by another DOL member whose dog was diagnosed a few months ago...
http://www.danesonline.com/forums/fo...phineas-update

do you have access to a cardiologist?

[Maliha]

Thank you for the reply and for sharing your story. I am sorry for your loss, it really is a heart breaking disease.

My husband works out of town and sometimes takes one of the boys with him. We decided that Christopher was old enough to be able to go as he is just 2.5 now. When he we had his check up in April there was a mild Grade 1 murmur detected but it was so mild that we decided to home monitor as many live with murmurs that never progress. My other dane has a murmur and he is 3.8 and it has never changed. Clinically speaking there was nothing of concern as he was presenting as a bright, beautiful happy go lucky young man in April. I listen to their hearts regularly and there was no indication of a-fib etc and the murmur was so light it was barely audible and only showed up once in a while.

When he left with my husband now 3 weeks ago, he was the model of health. After 1.5 weeks, he started to slow down on walks and my husband noted he coughed on the second week. Because it was a Thursday, I suggested he see if it passes as Christopher is rotten for eating things he shouldn't. By Friday, he called and said he was concerned so I told him to monitor Chris' pulse and resp. Late Sunday night all heck broke loose and I told the hubs to get him to a vet asap. Being where he was he had to wait until 8am to get him to a local clinic. After preliminary exam and diagnostics, he rushed Chris to the Veterinary Emergency Clinic in Toronto which has a staff cardiologist. It was a long day but we supposedly caught it early.

I haven't seen the file as we are waiting for final test results to come in but the hubs and Chris were sent home with a boatload of medications and told that with medications, he may have 6 months to live. I am struggling with this because the meds appear to be pretty hard on their bodies and although he is responding well, I fear his heart will give out when I am not home. I also don't want him to suffer. I am crushed. He is my little buddy. I live about 2.5 hours from a cardiologist so that is also a factor in continuing medical care. We were pretty much sent home with no follow-ups etc other than our regular vet.

[Charlene]

this is such a heartbreaking disease as we just cannot predict what the future holds and for how long. i am in much the same position, 2 hours from a specialty clinic with a cardiologist. the vet who did the ultrasound travels to my regular vet's office on an as-needed basis but does not do any actual follow-ups. since samson's condition was so far along, meds would not have turned him around. that being the case, i did not do any research so i don't know anything about medication side effects. did you read the thread i linked? angel (real name is troy-leigh) would be really good person to talk to because she has had phineas on the meds for a while now. i will contact her and tell her to check this thread out, i'm sure she will give you her input.

it sounds like it hit christopher hard and fast. i do hope the meds will help and you will have many more months with him. i'm so sorry you have to deal with this. it's just horrible!

[Maliha]

I did see that link and thank you so much for posting it. I was hesitant to even ask as it is a taboo subject in many Dane circles. I really appreciate your understanding and sharing of information. Our clinics do not have ultrasound and like yours, ours travels to complete the tests. The last time we inquired, we were told she didn't have a probe big/long enough for a Dane but that may have been for the stomach not heart. I will definitely be asking for my other dane as well.

Will follow--up on the other thread too. Been a super difficult few days. :-(

[Charlene]

you're very welcome. i wish i could be more encouraging although i do know that dogs have been known to live with DCM for up to 2-3 years if it's caught early and meds are started right away.

i think one reason it might be a taboo subject in some groups is because you seldom see this disease in dogs from reputable breeders. not that it can't happen but it's very rare simply because reputable breeders go to great pains to make sure their lines are healthy. so many times, as it was the case with my dane boy, dogs who suffer from DCM and other genetic diseases come from byb's who don't health test and are only breeding to crank out as many puppies as they can because it's money in their pockets.

this is just a thought but do you have any nearby universities with vet schools? if you do, you might check with them to see what services they offer in the way of diagnostics and treatments. they could very well have a cardiologist or two on staff who could help.

i know how devastating this diagnosis is. it's much like having your dane diagnosed with advanced osteosarcoma which is something else i went through a couple of years ago with another dane boy. it is just so shattering knowing the days are numbered and all you can do is try to come to terms with it.

[oceanbluedanes]

I am so sorry that your baby received this diagnosis. DCM is a heartbreaking disease. The meds are his best chance at the longest life possible. Without them, the disease will progress even faster and he will end up in congestive heart failure much faster.

Please let your breeder know (if you haven't already) because this condition is very much hereditary and most reputable breeders will want to know this.

[kahluadanes]

It should not be a taboo subject since it can happen even in the best of breedings.. Health testing as far as the heart goes is only good for that time which is why it is recommended to test yearly if you are breeding... I've had 2 with it.... one died suddenly at the age of 7 and the other was diagnosed at the age of 8 (had clear heart tests up to that point) went on meds and lived a good life until he was almost 10.. the heart issue wasn't what ended up causing his death... he also had bone cancer in his front leg.....Always let the breeder know even if the dog came from a less then responsible breeder.

[oceanbluedanes]

Please consider sending a blood sample to NCSU for the DCM research study. They will need the cardiology report and blood sample (or you can request cheek swabs) at minimum, pedigree if you have one. https://cvm.ncsu.edu/genetics/great-...ardiomyopathy/

[Maliha]

I did look at that study but because I am in Canada, I was concerned about shipping blood over the border.

[Maliha]

It should not be a taboo subject since it can happen even in the best of breedings.. Health testing as far as the heart goes is only good for that time which is why it is recommended to test yearly if you are breeding... I've had 2 with it.... one died suddenly at the age of 7 and the other was diagnosed at the age of 8 (had clear heart tests up to that point) went on meds and lived a good life until he was almost 10.. the heart issue wasn't what ended up causing his death... he also had bone cancer in his front leg.....Always let the breeder know even if the dog came from a less then responsible breeder.

I am sorry to read about your losses. I am just so concerned about the meds doing more harm than good especially because Christopher is so young. On the other hand, we cannot deny that our little buddy is back to his old self now that the meds are in his system.

When I was looking at the academic journals, one key point I noticed was that often, DCM doesn't appear in until after the male has been retired from breeding therefore, the unfortunate cycle has already been started. One blog I read was from a champ show breeder who discovered DCM in one of her studs. She had never had a problem in her years of breeding and all of a sudden it appeared. She was devastated and immediately informed all who could be affected. I have tried to reach out but folks in the circle I got him from don't like to believe it is genetic and have flat out said it is impossible to be genetic. *face palm*

[kahluadanes]

It is genetic...so definitely not "impossible" which is why the OFA cardio testing and the recommending it be done yearly..I am guessing you are dealing with some irresponsible breeders... As far as the meds are concerned they are doing him more good than harm and are necessary in order for him to have a chance at a life..

[Maliha]

It is genetic...so definitely not "impossible" which is why the OFA cardio testing and the recommending it be done yearly..I am guessing you are dealing with some irresponsible breeders... As far as the meds are concerned they are doing him more good than harm and are necessary in order for him to have a chance at a life..

It can be genetic but there is some research that indicates certain viruses can trigger DCM in Danes. Particularly young danes. So they are in that camp. In this case, it is genetic.

[kahluadanes]

Certain viruses & dental disease can cause heart issues in any breed/mix not just Danes, but the biggest cause is usually genetic which again is why cardio testing should be done yearly (echo testing vs just listening) since many don't show up until later on in life... some will show early.. Responsible breeders will do the testing yearly and keep it updated with OFA.

[Angel7292]

DCM *IS* genetic and it is *NOT* limited to BYB dogs or breeding dogs that haven't been health tested. A cardiac exam done yearly can help identify the problem early, but sometimes the disease doesn't rear it's ugly head until later in life. So, for example, a breeding male has a yearly echo, is bred and has pups on the ground. When he is older - let's say 6 - he is discovered to have DCM, and he already has been bred and the genetic loop continues. You can have the most responsible breeder testing every year, but they often have long since bred that dog, at least once to several times, by the time DCM is discovered. It is a vicious cycle that is not preventable at this time. You are totally setting yourself up, if you believe that your well bred dane won't develop DCM because the parents were health tested. My danes parents were health tested and neither had DCM. But my boy does. Any health test you have done is ONLY good for that day! Things change rapidly.

I'm going to put this disclaimer in my response to you about Christopher: I'm going to say all the following with the best of intentions, but realize that I am totally heartbroken over my danes DCM diagnosis almost 4 months ago. I probably have a bad filter at the moment and I'm still VERY angry about Phin's diagnosis.

I am sorry you've been put in this position with Christopher and I'm sure it is very surprising and heartbreaking for you too. It was devastating news for us that I have yet to fully accept. To this very day, I can't even tell someone he has DCM without crying. Phineas is only 6.5 years old and I'm truly devastated that this disease is going to kill my dog. It's a vicious and ugly disease and there is no medication to stop it. You can slow it's progression hopefully, but you can't cure it.

I can only answer for myself and that is, I am going to fight every single day, for the rest of his life, to keep him alive and happy. I don't care what meds we have to give him, what things we have to do for him, etc. I will go to the ends of the earth to give him one more day of being loved and cuddled. Your dane can die when you are not home. Your dane can suddenly drop dead too, when you are home. Danes are predisposed to develop an arrhythmia problem with DCM and you could be walking your dog one second and he could be gone the next. Considering shortening his life because he might die while you are not home, does not make sense to me. I realize that not everyone has the same relationship with their dog that I do. Perhaps some people can't afford the medication. I dunno. I just know for me, I am going to move heaven and earth to allow him the longest life possible.

Let me also say this.... Your dog is dying. Your dog is going to die. What difference does it make what long term harm the medication is going to do, IF you are buying him weeks / months / and yes, sometimes years?? I couldn't fathom not providing the medication / or discontinuing medication at this point. I've met people who have gained YEARS with their dane after a DCM diagnosis. Again, I can only speak for myself... but until my dog no longer has quality of life, I will aggressively pursue every medication / treatment out there for him. I owe it to him. It was a promise I made to him the day that I cuddled that beautiful happy 10 week old puppy, and called him mine. I promised to care for him until the end and that means that I'm going to fight this disease with all I have and all I can do. If it takes a 2 hour car ride to a specialist or a 20 hour car ride, I will do what I must to give him ANY extra time. If he needs it, I will get it for him.

These are decisions you have to make and decide what is best for your dog and your family. I'm sorry if any of what I just said sounded harsh, but my feelings are still so raw about our DCM diagnosis.

Any veterinarian cardiologist will have the proper equipment to do an ultrasound of your dogs heart. I have a ginormous great dane and he has had previous echos with zero issues. They don't need a special US machine to look at a danes heart. I would highly suggest you seek out a vet cardio and get your dog a full checkup. While regular vets have very good intentions, they don't have all the best information on how to treat something like DCM. At bare minimum, a full cardiac workup will tell you how bad the disease is, what to expect and what you can do for Christopher. Knowledge is power and I would suggest you not make any life / death decisions until you have a full understanding of his condition from a vet that specializes in cardiac issues. I trust my regular vet with my dogs life, but he will be the first to tell you, that a cardiologist is the best person for me to turn to.

There are some major advancements in medications related to DCM. I am glad to hear Christopher is back to his old self and things are improving. There is no expiration stamp on the bottom of his paw and while there are no guarantees, I can assure you that I've met a lot of people who have had danes out lived the prognosis they were given. On one of my support groups, there is a dane that is on year FIVE post diagnosis. It's a terminal disease, but that doesn't mean it's terminal this week... this month.. or even this year. Every dog is different. That is why I highly suggest you seek out a cardiologist, get a full workup and see what is REALLY going on. If there has been no US done at this point, then it's all just guessing. You need hard facts and then you can make the best decision for you and Christopher.

Best of luck.

P.S.... I re-read some of your post. DCM doesn't always present with a murmur. Also, a murmur doesn't always mean DCM either. What can be 'heard' is not adequate for a definitive DCM diagnosis. There are measurements that are needed, dilation measured and also blood flow. Your dog also needs to be assessed for any arrhythmia's as well, which is often the cause of sudden death. There are also MANY different cardiac issues that are more manageable then DCM, and until you've had a full cardiac workup, including an US, you can't be sure what you are truly dealing with.