Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

When to retire????

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • When to retire????

    Hi everyone,

    My delima is that we have a 5 year old female Merle (Hara) and she
    has had 3 large litters (1st-19 pups, 2nd-16 pups, 3rd-15 pups). Her
    ##### are looking pretty worn and with her age plus the number of pups
    she has had is it time to retire her from breeding? Is there a typical
    age that people breed female danes to?
    Any and all advise is much appreciated!!
    God Bless!
    Ben Sparks in Oklahoma

  • #2
    RE: When to retire????

    Sounds like this ol' lady definately deserves retirement.

    Rachel C. in California
    www.6stardanes.com
    B.A.R.F. fed since Dec 2000
    Our Danes: Roku (6yrs), Star (3yrs), Baron (4yrs), Eagle & Phoenix (1.5yr)
    Rachel C. of Sixstar Danes
    Click here to see our Youtube videos.
    Feeding raw since Dec 2000

    Comment


    • #3
      RE: When to retire????

      I don't think that any dog should be put through whelping and raising three litters. . . especially the size of litters you mentioned. That you would actually consider breeding her again (or you wouldn't be asking when to retire her) concerns me deeply. Why were you breeding her in the first place? My convictions are that only dogs that have been shown and proved in the ring and that have had the appropriate health screenings should be bred. (That means OFA Hips, thyroid, and heart at a minimum). Please, for the sake of your girl and all the unwanted dogs out there that end up in rescue, do not breed your girl again. There are more than enough danes out there that come from responsible and experienced show breeders, the world doesn't need everyone breeding their pet to produce more.

      Again, this is just my personal opinion. For all I know you may be a seasoned breeder/exhibitor, but the fact that it sounds like you would consider breeding her again tells me otherwise. My apologies if I'm mistaken.

      Amanda

      Comment


      • #4
        RE: When to retire????

        Sounds to me like she has "earned" the right to retire. I would recomend spaying and tacking her, as her stomach muscle are stretched and weakened by the load of carrying so many pups and the chance of bloat is high. Spaying will also eliminate any chance of pyro in her later glory years. Hope she enjoys the easy life now.
        Carolyn
        Divine Acres Great Danes
        Carolyn
        Divine Acres Great Danes
        Divine Acres The Legend "Bruce" 5 1/2 months old..5th generation of DA Danes!
        sigpic

        Comment


        • #5
          RE: When to retire????

          Amanda....I can count on one hand the exhibitors/show folks in this state. Not to mention the Oklahoma Great Dane Rescue is full now and looking for foster homes, so more can come in. Breeding more pet Danes in this state is really not necessary.
          Okie regards.......
          from the Sooner State, Brenda
          Royal Sooner Great Danes & Borzoi
          http://www.royalsoonerdanes.com
          Public Education Chair, Mid-Del-Tinker Kennel Club
          Membership Chair & Webmaster, Great Dane Club of Oklahoma
          Webmaster, Great Dane Club of Greater Dallas

          Comment


          • #6
            RE: When to retire????

            Hi Ben and Welcome to Great Danes On Line.

            I may be mistaken but, I thought I read that breeding Merles is not advisable (to say the least) because of a gene which can cause blindness and deafness. ~ See http://home.flash.net/~dby/chlinx.htm for more info. ~ Give her a break. ~ Let her relax and enjoy whatever time she has left on earth w/o being constantly pregnant and nursing.

            ~Bonnie~
            May ♥ The ♥ Paw ♥ Be ♥ With ♥ You!

            Comment


            • #7
              RE: When to retire????

              Thanks for all the responses so far...
              I'll give you a little history on her.
              We have had her for around 4-5 months. We rescued her from a breeder
              that was going out of business. The breeders wife knew mine and mentioned to her that her husband was going to "take em out back" and
              get rid of their danes if she couldnt find homes for them. She had already had the first 2 litters when we got her and they were unsure
              if she was pregnant when we picked her up so we didnt have her spayed
              at the time. It turned out she wasnt pregnant and about 1-2 weeks after we picked her up she was mating with our male. The pregnancy
              went well and the puppies were healthy and gorgious except for one
              still born that didnt make it. We had great fun raising these pups and
              grew quite attached to them. We raise exotic mammals and reptiles so
              these friendly bundles of joy around the house were quite a welcome presence. We decided that we were going to tightly screen our potential buyers and had a list of questions etc.. to ask them. All of
              our puppies went to homes of current or past great dane owners except for one. We would like to raise another litter sometime. The puppies
              all sold in 3 days of placing our add in the paper which really blew
              us away. We were not expecting them to go near that fast and I know I wanst really emotionally prepared for it either. We didnt ask that much for them since we thought we were screening buyers (and we did turn several away). To my knowledge there are not many breeders in our area and in the Tulsa dane rescue I believe they have 3 danes
              currently up for adoption and on the site the lady from Sooner Danes
              mentioned they have 3 also listed. Hara is our third great dane.
              Thanks again for all the advise so far, I do believe we will go ahead
              with getting her spayed.
              God Bless!
              Ben

              Comment


              • #8
                RE: When to retire????

                Hi Ben, welcome to DOL...

                I am from OK as well, and would just like to (gently) inform you of our state's current situation.

                Most any day of the week, an unknowledgeable person can purchase a Dane puppy from any number of Backyard Breeders (BYBs) if they are willing to buy a copy of the Daily Oklahoman. I know...I look all the time. I probably saw your ad.

                There are a few (as Brenda, from Royal Sooner Danes pointed out) reputable breeders in OK that responsibly breed their babies.

                Tulsa PAWS has "only" 3 Danes on their site listed now, yes, but that doesn't mean these are the "only" 3 Danes needing rescued in OK right now, it only means that PAWS doesn't have room for any more.

                I volunteer for OKGDRA (Oklahoma Great Dane Rescue Association) and we currently have 4 Danes available, a fifth is arriving this evening, a sixth is arriving on the 29th of December, and our director is bombarded with emails and phone calls every day of the week. Sadly, we do not have enough foster homes and, although we do our upmost to place every Dane we hear of, sometimes we have to turn them down.

                It sounds like your girl probably came from a BYB who discovered that the trouble vs. money issue was not worth it to them to keep their dog, and Bless You(!) for rescuing her.

                But PLEASE, do her (and all of us in Rescue, all over the world) a favor...SPAY this girl ASAP. "One litter of pups" is not really just "one litter"...Each of those puppies will soon be old enough to breed their own litter, and those puppies will breed, and so on...the numbers are infinite and we in rescue are already overwhelmed.

                BTW, the reason you don't see many Danes in kill shelters is b/c lots of Danes get euthanized in them b/c they are too big...you can feed, house, and vaccinate 2 or 3 smaller dogs for the expense of one Dane. The kill shelters DO realize this and act upon it, unless we intervene. No-kill, all-breed rescues realize this as well and rarely accept a Dane for the same reasons. To say that "there are few Danes available in OK" is simply not true and to breed using this as an excuse only exacerbates the problems of our wonderful breed.

                Climbing down from my soapbox now, I'd like to leave you with one thought to keep in mind if you ever decide to rescue another dog that is 'possibly pregnant'...you CAN spay a pregnant female.

                Comment


                • #9
                  RE: When to retire????

                  Thanks for the info Lacey. By no means would I consider the number of
                  danes available for rescue on the net in Ok a reason so breed. The only reasons we would breed is because we love danes, enjoy raising
                  puppies , and feel no one should be denied the right to own one of
                  these amazing animals simply because they cant afford 500-1500$ (or
                  more) for one. Many people have and will make great G.D. owners and
                  provide a excellent home even though they cannot afford a higher priced dane. We tried to screen the buyers best we could and feel we
                  did a pretty good job. In addition we do tell all of our buyers, whether it be snakes, wallabies, etc... that should they ever need to give up their pet to call us first and we will either adopt it back or possibly buy it back. This does happen from time to time.
                  We have thought about offering our home as a foster home and possibly taking a couple of more "Adoptees".
                  I dont know if I would feel comfortable spaying a female while she is pregnant but will remember that it can be done. Our female Harah will
                  be spayed in the next week but I would still like to breed again.
                  Thanks again and God Bless!
                  Ben

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    RE: When to retire????

                    So glad to hear she will be spayed. Sounds like it's time for her to rest and be spoiled and loved, also merles should NEVER be bred. You were very lucky there was just the one still born. If you love this breed, please stay here and learn about their genetics so that you aren't damaging the genetic makeup of the breed.

                    If you want to breed someday, this is a great place! You can learn about genetics of Danes, health testing, showing, how to choose the right pair of Danes to breed for better health and conformation, etc (etc etc etc) There is so much involved I would never even dream of doing it (I prefer just to lie around and cuddle with my baby!) but if you are interested there are quite a few wonderful breeders on here and you may even find someone in your area you could have as a mentor.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      RE: When to retire????

                      Thanks alicat,

                      My parents showed and raised collies many many years and I grew up
                      and still go to shows. I'll definetly research and spend more time
                      learning about Danes and their genetics! Its kinda funny but we have
                      bred reptiles more than anything and the genetics albeit basic at times is still quite similar from what I'v read so far. There are many
                      views I will probably not see eye-to-eye with but any and all advise
                      is always welcome advise.
                      My question has been answered and I thank everyone for their input.
                      I look forward to future discussions with everyone.

                      God Bless!!
                      Ben

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        RE: When to retire????

                        Ben....First and foremost responsible breeders are not breeding to make a profit but for the betterment of the breed. While you insinuate high prices from those who are show breeders, you fail to understand the health, quality and temperament of those you bred. Grant you, when health-testing; education seminars, showing (to name just a few) are discarded ....one can purchase a pup under $500.00. I have one of those and unfortunately Im still paying for his health & temperament issues and more than likely will be until the day he is no longer with me. Definitely way over the cost of what I would have paid from a responsible show breeder. In order for you to better understand, a breeder should strive to continually improve the quality of the dogs they are breeding. The standard used is a written description of the breed that portrays the ideal specimen for the breed. Breeders who show their dogs are generally striving for the ideal in their breed. Not all the puppies they produce will end up in a show ring, but will provide a family with a healthy happy pet companion. To continue in breeding pets because one loves puppies or their beloved pet will only continue to dilute the breed. In other words we will loose the majestic look of the animal weve come to admire. While I applaud you on your desire to find good homes, I can only hope those pups went out with limited registration and spay/neuter agreements, so the cycle of poor breeding practices can discontinue. Breeding dogs take a lot of time, money and effort. Ethical breeders should feel responsible for the welfare of all dogs they produce for their lifetime regardless if they live with them or another family. Buying a dog or puppy from such a breeder should bring one years of happiness not heartache. Last but not least, thank you for getting your Dane spayed. Just as a future reference, the OKGDRA, as well as most reputable rescues will not allow foster homes to have unaltered animals, unless that particular animal has health issues or is being actively shown in conformation. Please join "The Oklahoma Great Dane News & Events" from off my website. We would luv to have you & yours join all the Dane fanatics in Oklahoma at our events held throughout the year. Hope to meet you soon!
                        Okie regards.......
                        from the Sooner State, Brenda
                        Royal Sooner Great Danes & Borzoi
                        http://www.royalsoonerdanes.com
                        Public Education Chair, Mid-Del-Tinker Kennel Club
                        Membership Chair & Webmaster, Great Dane Club of Oklahoma
                        Webmaster, Great Dane Club of Greater Dallas

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          RE: When to retire????

                          Say 10 pups sold at a "reasonable" price of 250/pup is $2500 gross profit, less your say $15 for the ad in the paper and "gone in 3 days" (at what age?), and given you got the bitch and the breeding free seems to me you are hand over fist financially ahead of any show breeder _I_ know who sells their pets on Limited for an average of $800. I am sure that was "enjoyable" given how little you had to do with the work of it all? (Raising a litter for a couple of months being a VERY small part of the obligation of a responsible breeder.) Hope they were all sold on Limited Registration (or none at all) and a written spay/neuter contract. Given the circumstances frankly IMOSHO you should have "sold" them all on a rebate for the costs of spay/neuter and not gone on to realize a profit on the sales of a rescue bitch received pregnant. Please don't think you did the breed any favors with this little transaction for all you had fun and profit from it. Unfortunately doing right be the breed requires more than enjoying selling "oops" pups at 6-7 weeks. And yes, she's certainly a bitch that should be spayed. She's a bitch IMO that should have never been bred once let alone three times, poor dear heart.

                          And please before you even contemplate the fun and further profit of another litter to please the impulse newspaper buyer do two things: (1) get involved in breed rescue--good contacts like Brenda Young locally given in this thread and (2) call each and every one of these wonderful buyers every month for the first year and twice a year for the next ten (or when the pet you sold them dies if earlier) and keep track of this litter you made. After all you are one of the good guys right? And the good people take responsibility for the lives they made for the life of the dogs they sold. And they get involved with the breed they breed...esp. they make SURE they understand and help out with rescue...so they are part of the solution and not (even by accident) part of the problem.

                          This whole thread makes me want to ask Santa to make the internet truly an instrument of education in the coming Year. Peace to all the Danes out there lost, abandoned, abused, neglected and simply misunderstood by the well-meaning. Our last "loving pet" that came to rescue died of malnutrition before we could help him back to health. Two more this week from another loving home who can no longer keep them, and guess what, the breeders are no where in sight. Another coming in this week..also once loved and sold as an adorable pet...now an abandoned adult. Merry Christmas and give a donation to rescue of your time and/or money. Breeders esp. and esp. those who don't work with rescue IMOSHO should donate some of these easy proftis TO rescue. 10% maybe--tithe like in church? To the breed? Whaddaya think Brenda, is that fair? regards,

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            RE: When to retire????

                            I would just like to applaud all of you for your wonderfully tactful responses. I don't have it in me.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              RE: When to retire????

                              Woooohoooo! JP...you go girl! I concur with maybe some Christmas eggnog on the side!! :9
                              Okie regards.......
                              from the Sooner State, Brenda
                              Royal Sooner Great Danes & Borzoi
                              http://www.royalsoonerdanes.com
                              Public Education Chair, Mid-Del-Tinker Kennel Club
                              Membership Chair & Webmaster, Great Dane Club of Oklahoma
                              Webmaster, Great Dane Club of Greater Dallas

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X