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  • allergy elimination

    Jazz definately has a new allergy. Dr has pulled her from her joint suppliment and heartworm meds for now, concerned about the flavoring additives/preservatives.

    I'm not sure it isn't a food allergy. I'd like to possible eliminate some to see if we can nail this down, as the licking has caused very dangerous and expensive problems!

    Currently she is eating chicken, turkey and pork. and occasional venison
    Chicken, has vommitted last 3/5 times she has eaten it.
    turkey, will only eat necks, hates every other cut (except will eat ground if I make her)
    Pork - loves it!
    Vension, ground when we can get it, no obvious problem

    Organs - planned on using chicken heart and liver


    Planned on trying beef again in a few months, it made her pretty urpy, and she wouldn't eat the rest of the day.

    She has lost hair around her eyes and across bridge of nose. Tonight I did notice some(1-2) red (very small, 1-2mm) welts on inner thighs. She had been licking her shins and is itchign her neck. Her hair has very quickly, in last couple of days turned a terrible gray dull color. She has only been on the dosaquin a week, so her vet suspects this, that is why we are starting there.

    Treats: She does on occasion get a freeze dried beef tripe, freeze dried piece od pork or frreze dried piece of beef all without preservatives. Or a piece of string cheese. Treats are maybe 1-2 a day tops.

    Supplements: She does take slippery elm. It was every day when on kibble, then PRN and as of yesterday now going to be every day again.

    Also all of ther meat is placed in plastic bags, could she be reacting to the plastic?

    Ok so where do I start, and what would you do?

    Thanks everyone!
    Em
    sigpic
    Emily
    Jazz - GD rescued at 5 months (september 27th, 2009)
    Blues - GD rescued at ? grew through 2012 (July 29, 2011)
    Preston - 8 y/o "grumpy old man" yorkie mix

    bluesfightscancer.com

  • #2
    wowsers.. i am sorry to hear this.. only so much advice i can offer, and i hope the vet is running any tests .. i really hope you can get to the bottom of this... how long has the hair loss, itching been going on now? when did you first notice it? the only logical experiment i can think of is to start from scratch.. 1 meat source at a time. do you have any house plants? has she been bathed with a new shampoo? any new carpet cleaning products?
    sigpic A dog has the soul of a philosopher ~ Plato

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    • #3
      Everything is the same as far as cleaning products and treats. As ironic as it is I have terrible allergies/asthma so I keep everything very minimal and allergy friendly here.

      I had noticed the hair on the bridge of her nose over the last week, so I mentioned it to the vet, she noticed the hair on around her eyes. I hadn't picked up on that yet. It is pretty mild. That is why she started with pulling the joint supplements as she has been on it for just over a week.

      The same with licking her shins, it wasn't a constant licking, I just noticed her occasionally licking her shins over the last week or so. Apparently she may have been doing that more when I was not here. She wasn't licking enough in any one spot to notice any actual hair loss or sore.

      I am concerned with a food allergy. I was suspicous of chicken because she has been sick on it so much lately.

      If I go back to 1 meat source, which would you do? how long can she go without organs and heart?

      Thanks so much!!!!

      Em
      sigpic
      Emily
      Jazz - GD rescued at 5 months (september 27th, 2009)
      Blues - GD rescued at ? grew through 2012 (July 29, 2011)
      Preston - 8 y/o "grumpy old man" yorkie mix

      bluesfightscancer.com

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      • #4
        well.. which meat source is a difficult one, especially not being there and knowing exactly what you feed .. have you started any of them new in the last week or 2? i would also add some raw apple cider vinegar (a little bit) to her food or water if you havent been doing so. i want to say lay off from the chicken since she has been sick on it, but again, not being there, and not being an allergist, vet, or professional anything (yet) :/ its hard

        i think starting with the meds especially fist, since that is the newest thing introduced is first thing i would do as well..
        sigpic A dog has the soul of a philosopher ~ Plato

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        • #5
          The only thing new in the last few weeks (other than meds) was literally 1 piece of chicken liver which she ate a few days before she got sick. I have purchased the chicken from different stores, I wonder if I need to get the organic chicken. We pretty much figured out the preservatives were the issue to the kibble, I don't know why I was hoping human food preservatives were somehow better.


          Hmmmm No chicken or organic chicken which route to go down first? Honestly too many variables for me to figure out!

          Tonya I really appreciate your help. I think you have a much better grasp on nutrition than I do!

          Em
          sigpic
          Emily
          Jazz - GD rescued at 5 months (september 27th, 2009)
          Blues - GD rescued at ? grew through 2012 (July 29, 2011)
          Preston - 8 y/o "grumpy old man" yorkie mix

          bluesfightscancer.com

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          • #6
            If it were me, I'd start from the very beginning.

            Take everything away...including the slippery elm.

            Fast her for 1 day. Then, since chicken is a staple, go with ORGANIC chicken. See how she does on that for 2 weeks. Record if she vomits, when, and her poo. Some of the vomitting could be detox, some could be allergies. But, if her symptoms get worse, I'd say she's allergic.

            If she does well with that, then do turkey for 2 weeks. See how she does with that. Do same as above.

            Add a new meat source every 2 weeks. This will give you a good idea of what she can tolerate, and what she can't.

            For right now, stay away from organs...especially if it is chicken she's allergic too, then giving her chicken organs won't help.

            But things need to be one at a time until you figure out what is what. HTH! Good luck!
            ~Laura~

            Dori: 7 years (TDI, CGC), Toby: RIP SWEET BOY (CGC), Cami: 7 years (TDI, CGC)

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            • #7
              I may have already mentioned these folks to you, but My Pet Carnivore delivers to your area. They have free range veggie fed chicken, grass-fed beef, bison, deer, lamb/mutton, goose, rabbit, & duck if you need different protein sources. I just checked and they have lamb and bison liver if you can't use chicken or beef. Just another option and their prices are pretty decent. Not the 99 cents a pound for quarters at the grocery, but for the quality you're getting, it's good, plus there's none of the preservatives you get with regular grocery store meat.
              sigpicIs it dinnertime yet?

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              • #8
                from everything I read about allergies (and believe me, I read a lot, and talk to different vets), only 10 to 25% dogs have ONLY food allergies. Most of the allergies in dogs are inhalant allergies. Food change helps often, because if dog is allergic to both food and something in the environment, by eliminating one source of allergy, you help the dog to be 'below threshold' so he doesn't show symptoms of allergies.
                So it's not necessary that something new in the food or supplements is causing allergies now - it could be that the level of allergens in the air became higher.

                as for food - if she is vomiting chicken, I would start with anything except chicken. Or boneless checking - maybe it's bones that causing vomiting? I know some are soaking chicken in Apple Cider Vinegar at first, that makes bones softer

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jazzandcompany View Post
                  The only thing new in the last few weeks (other than meds) was literally 1 piece of chicken liver which she ate a few days before she got sick. I have purchased the chicken from different stores, I wonder if I need to get the organic chicken. We pretty much figured out the preservatives were the issue to the kibble, I don't know why I was hoping human food preservatives were somehow better.


                  Hmmmm No chicken or organic chicken which route to go down first? Honestly too many variables for me to figure out!

                  Tonya I really appreciate your help. I think you have a much better grasp on nutrition than I do!

                  Em
                  aww, thanks for the compliment emily.. i think the first time i realized that "natural flavoring" was a true ingredient (if curious, google it ) i became enamored with food, and the various things humans do to it. plus with my eating habits, well, my first report on vegetarianism was when i was 10 -- trying to convince my meat and potato family that i would not keel over from not eating meat, lol..

                  do you keep a journal of her food? with her issues you may want to. include any treats or odd foods (little tidbits given of what you are eating)

                  if she previously had no issues with the chicken, i would start with chicken, and go organic. if you have a wholefoods near you (gawd i miss wholefoods) they will often have organic free range chicken for .99 a pound, and they will cut it up for free for you.

                  also, allergies can present themselves over time.. so there lies one of my biggest issues with giving advice... the chicken itself could be the issue and just presented itself. or the meds... but at least by starting from scratch and moving forward, you may be able to eliminate the problem.

                  allergies, from my understanding, should start to clear up within a week of stopping the food being given.

                  environmental allergies may be presenting themselves just because it is winter time and being indoors more. also, heating and cooling systems blow all sorts of strange things into the air..

                  you definitely have an interesting case and i really hope you can get to the bottom of it.

                  Oh... and DONT STRESS stress is a trigger and will possibly exacerbate the issue. if you are stressing, so is she.. . bundle up, go outside, and take a nice walk with your girl!
                  sigpic A dog has the soul of a philosopher ~ Plato

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                  • #10
                    Emily: With your asthma, do you have a hepa air filter going? If not, perhaps you should think about adding one. Also, change your furnace filter often, and use the good, pleated ones that filter down to little micro-organisms and dust particles.
                    I change our filter every month, even though it says it will last up to 3 months. When I see the good filters on sale, I stock at least 3 or 4 so I always have clean ones on stand-by.
                    I agree with Tonya to start over. I am not so sure you should stop the slippery elm though, as that appears to be helping with her digestion and this issue started before you added it back in.

                    Keep your chin up! You will get this girl on a level field one day very soon!
                    sigpicLynn - Ximmy's Mom's Mom - John & Lynsie, skin kids, Faela & Gus skin grandkids,OnzaPous, ReignaPous, Banshee & Kit-ten and now Dare Devil and Fuzzy Butt the cats, and of course......Ximmy Ximmy Xoom Xoom and [COLOR=red]Sprocket (aka Sprockey Wocky Puppy Pants) and Sibanca our newest Dane rescue

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                    • #11
                      i would have to agree. start from the beginning. try pork since she seems to be ok on it. feed her nothing but pork for a couple weeks and see how she does. if shes still not improving after 2 weeks, switch to something different like venison for 2 weeks, etc.

                      otherwise there's no way to tell which meat is causing the problem because its changing too much.
                      Tracy Miller
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                      Boston's Story Rest In Peace, Buddy! 11.14.2007-2.24.2011
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by isa aldawolfa View Post
                        if she previously had no issues with the chicken, i would start with chicken, and go organic. if you have a wholefoods near you (gawd i miss wholefoods) they will often have organic free range chicken for .99 a pound, and they will cut it up for free for you.

                        also, allergies can present themselves over time.. so there lies one of my biggest issues with giving advice... the chicken itself could be the issue and just presented itself. or the meds... but at least by starting from scratch and moving forward, you may be able to eliminate the problem.

                        allergies, from my understanding, should start to clear up within a week of stopping the food being given.

                        environmental allergies may be presenting themselves just because it is winter time and being indoors more. also, heating and cooling systems blow all sorts of strange things into the air..

                        you definitely have an interesting case and i really hope you can get to the bottom of it.

                        Oh... and DONT STRESS stress is a trigger and will possibly exacerbate the issue. if you are stressing, so is she.. . bundle up, go outside, and take a nice walk with your girl!
                        I wish we had a whole foods or even trader Joe's but no such luck! I'd have to drive to St Louis, which I love, but finding an entire day for a meat road trip is a bit difficult right now. I'm going to look into mypetcarnivore and possibly go that route. Organic chicken in the store here is 3-4/pound and I can't even find quarters! Just boneless/skinless breasts and legs. You wouldn't think I was in the middle of farmland USA!

                        I'm going to stick with pork for right now as Springfield has ran out of turkey so I had to "special order" so it won't be in for over a week. that will be ove a week on pork only. If she gets worse, I guess I'll have an idea where the problem lies! That will also give me a chance to get soem organic meats ordered. I really have a strong suspicion it is preservatives since that was the kibble issue. I have no idea if that same preservatives are used in both foods (gross I hope not) but she seems to react pretty strongly to all chemicals, medicines included. Her vet is always very reluctant to put her on any medication as she does not react in a "typical" way.

                        Do you know how long she can safely go without the organs/heart? She really hasn't had these yet and it has been nearly 3 months. I'm nervous she is needing these nutrients, but I am terrified to try to feed these with every thing else going on. Any thoughts?

                        Thanks!!!
                        Em
                        sigpic
                        Emily
                        Jazz - GD rescued at 5 months (september 27th, 2009)
                        Blues - GD rescued at ? grew through 2012 (July 29, 2011)
                        Preston - 8 y/o "grumpy old man" yorkie mix

                        bluesfightscancer.com

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by isdapous View Post
                          Emily: With your asthma, do you have a hepa air filter going? If not, perhaps you should think about adding one. Also, change your furnace filter often, and use the good, pleated ones that filter down to little micro-organisms and dust particles.
                          I change our filter every month, even though it says it will last up to 3 months. When I see the good filters on sale, I stock at least 3 or 4 so I always have clean ones on stand-by.
                          I agree with Tonya to start over. I am not so sure you should stop the slippery elm though, as that appears to be helping with her digestion and this issue started before you added it back in.

                          Keep your chin up! You will get this girl on a level field one day very soon!

                          Thanks Lynn,
                          You would cry if you knew how much I spent on filters each year! Heck I cry every time I think about it!

                          I'm so on the fence with the slippery elm! It is the same company, but I don't know if they always get it from the same source etc. Supplements are regulated by FDA, so no realy quality control guarantee.

                          I'm still struggling with the coconut oil she has to eat (separate thread) ifyou have any advice on that, please let me know!

                          Thanks for your words of encouragement, you are always so wonderful at that!

                          Em
                          sigpic
                          Emily
                          Jazz - GD rescued at 5 months (september 27th, 2009)
                          Blues - GD rescued at ? grew through 2012 (July 29, 2011)
                          Preston - 8 y/o "grumpy old man" yorkie mix

                          bluesfightscancer.com

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                          • #14
                            carol or bev (or anyone else with extensive experience) may know more about how long without organs.. i am not sure. i think you may be ok to hold off why you get everything else straightened around.. i imagine the vet can do a blood analysis to see if there are any vit/min deficiencies. i plan to have isa tested shortly since she has been on raw almost a year and i want to check levels.

                            ok,, start with pork.. are you getting this straight from a butcher? if so it should be at least preservative free (?) even if not organic. mypetcarnivore may be a good route.. i have thought about ordering from them, just havent yet ..

                            unfortunately a lot of "farmland" is big business land these days, and most ag businesses do not like organic, or free range.. i am right there with ya..
                            sigpic A dog has the soul of a philosopher ~ Plato

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by isa aldawolfa View Post
                              carol or bev (or anyone else with extensive experience) may know more about how long without organs.. i am not sure. i think you may be ok to hold off why you get everything else straightened around.. i imagine the vet can do a blood analysis to see if there are any vit/min deficiencies. i plan to have isa tested shortly since she has been on raw almost a year and i want to check levels.

                              ok,, start with pork.. are you getting this straight from a butcher? if so it should be at least preservative free (?) even if not organic. mypetcarnivore may be a good route.. i have thought about ordering from them, just havent yet ..

                              unfortunately a lot of "farmland" is big business land these days, and most ag businesses do not like organic, or free range.. i am right there with ya..

                              Well I was going to the local meat market. That is the actual name! And come to find out, he like the rest of the city just orders it in from some big storehouse That is why he can't get any turkey in until next Friday. He told me on average they butcher one animal a month. I was shocked! I need to go back to MO where the meat place actually is preparing the meat on location! The meat being brought in is coming in from just down the road......... oh I dislike the city.

                              HMMM Maybe time to go visit the parents and bring a very very very large cooler!

                              Thanks for the help, time to do some on-line shopping I think

                              Em
                              sigpic
                              Emily
                              Jazz - GD rescued at 5 months (september 27th, 2009)
                              Blues - GD rescued at ? grew through 2012 (July 29, 2011)
                              Preston - 8 y/o "grumpy old man" yorkie mix

                              bluesfightscancer.com

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