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  • Genetic test for bloat risk factors

    Has anyone tried the genetic test referenced in this study?

    https://greatdanegnosis.wordpress.co...-breakthrough/

    If this is true, it is really great news. I am seriously considering paying the $65 for the test through VetGen. Egon just got home from having a lap assisted pexy and neuter and the doctor that performed the surgery noted that he was pretty stressed before the surgery (which would be expected), and there was a decent amount of gas in his stomach during the procedure. This study talks about a potential link between IBD and the risk alleles that this test tests for. Egon has had poop issues pretty much from the day we brought him home at 8 weeks and I would not be surprised if he tests positive for these alleles. I am just wondering if anyone else has had this test done. The link is below.

    https://www.vetgen.com/canine-gdv.html
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    Egon- 5/18/15

  • #2
    I know quite a few people who have ordered the test, but since it's brand new, I don't know anyone who has results yet.
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    • #3
      I ended up ordering the kit since it's so affordable and only became available thru VetGen a couple weeks ago. I figure if it is legitimate, I learn if Egon us at a higher risk for bloat. If it's not, I can at least give my feedback to other Dane parents. Win, win.
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      Egon- 5/18/15

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      • #4
        mine was part of the study. She has IBD (confirmed by biopsies, not just 'suspected'); and she did bloat. Still with all that, she was tested as 'NOT at risk'.
        which makes me be more 'trusting' of their test - because they did know she bloated, and still they didn't 'play' with results and gave me information they got by their test. Knowing that she bloated and that she has IBD.

        But it shows that with this test, if dog is tested as 'not in risk', there is still no guarantee the dog wouldn't bloat But if the dog tested as 'at risk', I think this is a good indication to have pexi done. Seeing my dog bloating, I wouldn't wish this to anyone... Luckily she survived and recovered, but luckily we were home and closer to great vet clinic when it happened!

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        • #5
          This test does not tell you if your dog is at risk or not. ALL Great Danes are at risk of GDV.

          That said, if your dog has one or more of the 3 risk alleles, then its considered to be at a higher risk (and may still never experience GDV in its lifetime).

          If your dog has NONE of the 3 risk alleles, there is still statistically a 20% (that's 1 in 5) chance of experiencing a GDV event in its lifetime.

          This study is a good step in the right direction but it most certainly has its limitations. GDV is very likely a multi-factorial issue which means even if we knew all of the alleles to test for, it would still only get us so close determining any dog's real risk.

          Since the OPs dog is already pexied, knowing the status of these 3 alleles is rather useless. Especially if this is not a potential breeding dog.
          *Jennifer*
          Member GDC of Mid-Florida
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          • #6
            I just worry that people will use this test as the holy grail if their dane will bloat or not in the future. Other then a breeder, I see no real good value to a pet owner to do this test. You should always assume your dog has potential to bloat. You should always manage your dog to mitigate the potential for bloat and GDV. More so then anything, not all dogs that bloat are genetically predisposed and not all dogs that have a genetic component will bloat for certain. It's merely a tool that may or may not tell you if there is a potential for an increase to the risk that your dane already has! Nothing more, nothing less. No matter what the end results on the test are, you shouldn't change a darn thing when watching for bloat and being prepared in case it happens.
            Last edited by Angel7292; 10-02-2016, 01:59 PM.
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            • #7
              Originally posted by oceanbluedanes View Post
              This test does not tell you if your dog is at risk or not. ALL Great Danes are at risk of GDV.
              right, thank you for correcting.
              the results were
              "She does not carry either of the risk alleles found in this study"
              which means not in 65% risk group; but still risk, "just" 20%

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Shamu View Post
                right, thank you for correcting.
                the results were
                "She does not carry either of the risk alleles found in this study"
                which means not in 65% risk group; but still risk, "just" 20%
                My post wasn't directed at you Shamu. I just find it to be critical that we do not put too much emphasis on the results of this test since as you know for yourself - it only tells so much of the story. I'm just waiting to hear the BYBs advertising "Genetically Free of GDV Great Danes!" Ugh... SO not the case at all.
                *Jennifer*
                Member GDC of Mid-Florida
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Angel7292 View Post
                  I just worry that people will use this test as the holy grail if their dane will bloat or not in the future. Other then a breeder, I see no real good value to a pet owner to do this test. You should always assume your dog has potential to bloat. You should always manage your dog to mitigate the potential for bloat and GDV. More so then anything, not all dogs that bloat are genetically predisposed and not all dogs that have a genetic component will bloat for certain. It's merely a tool that may or may not tell you if there is a potential for an increase to the risk that your dane already has! Nothing more, nothing less. No matter what the end results on the test are, you shouldn't change a darn thing when watching for bloat and being prepared in case it happens.
                  As an owner of Danes who isn't a breeder, I find a lot of value in this test.

                  Since I'm not planning in neutering either of my dogs, this test can help determine whether I should take the inherent risk of anesthesia to perform an elective gastropexy. Titan has an anesthesia sensitivity and is a fairly calm, non-nervous dog, so if he tested in the 20% category, I'd most likely elect to not pexy him. If he tested and has a higher risk, I'd have to think a bit harder about which risk is greater.
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Hiraeth View Post
                    As an owner of Danes who isn't a breeder, I find a lot of value in this test.

                    Since I'm not planning in neutering either of my dogs, this test can help determine whether I should take the inherent risk of anesthesia to perform an elective gastropexy. Titan has an anesthesia sensitivity and is a fairly calm, non-nervous dog, so if he tested in the 20% category, I'd most likely elect to not pexy him. If he tested and has a higher risk, I'd have to think a bit harder about which risk is greater.
                    Oy... be careful. This is very slippery.

                    GDV is most likely a multi-factorial issue. Which means there are many factors involved here. Environment, diet, genetics, exercise etc. Suppose the genetic component accounts for 50% of its occurrence (that is just a random number that I pulled out of thin air). Then of that 50%, we have identified a whopping 3 alleles found by screening genes that are known for contributing to gastric issues like IBD. There are potentially MANY other alleles that contribute to the genetic component of bloat, perhaps both linked to these discovered alleles and perhaps not, or both.

                    Master's degree in Genetics speaking here, but I would be VERY wary of deciding to decline a gastropexy on a Great Dane based on the results of this test. Very. Very. Wary.
                    *Jennifer*
                    Member GDC of Mid-Florida
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Hiraeth View Post
                      As an owner of Danes who isn't a breeder, I find a lot of value in this test.

                      Since I'm not planning in neutering either of my dogs, this test can help determine whether I should take the inherent risk of anesthesia to perform an elective gastropexy. Titan has an anesthesia sensitivity and is a fairly calm, non-nervous dog, so if he tested in the 20% category, I'd most likely elect to not pexy him. If he tested and has a higher risk, I'd have to think a bit harder about which risk is greater.
                      You are going to do exactly what I said I worried people would do. You are looking for this test to predict possible future health issues. It can't do it. You are assigning more importance to this test then there is. The potential for bloat has MANY risk factors and genetics is one small bit of it. ANY dane can bloat, genetic or not.

                      You are most welcome to make any choice you feel you need to for YOUR dog. But as you often say, I'm going to put it out there for those that read this thread later.

                      A 20% risk in our breed for GDV is exceptionally high. That is 1 in 5 danes! Since bloat can happen in ANY dane - with or without a genetic predisposition - you should ALWAYS think your dane is at risk for bloating. Others using temperament only as a deciding factor as well, is just crazy. I have the most laid back dane ever (ask anyone that has met him!) and he has bloated several times. There are so many risk factors that have been identified, you are looking at 2 out of a list of 20.



                      People make grand mistakes thinking they have this licked. You think you have a dog from a line with no KNOWN bloat.. so what. No breeder knows what happened to every dog in their line. Means nothing. Look at the bloat forum here on DOL, you'll see laid back temperament has often been a description of many danes that have bloated. Food plays an issue, environment, stress levels, illness, food quality, exercise, bowl height, so on and so on. Every dane should be cared for that they have the potential to bloat. With or without the genetic testing. Danes with no genetic predisposition has just as much chance of bloating as those that do (see Shamu below).

                      A gastropexy is also only a small tool in the fight against GDV. A pexy will NOT prevent bloat. It only buys you a small amount of time and hopefully prevent the torsion of the stomach - the most fatal part. Otherwise, bloat can still happen in a dog with a pexy and it IS still a medical emergency!

                      Obviously making whatever decision is right for your dog, is up to you. However, this genetic test is only a tool that will end up being most helpful to breeders. As a pet owner, making future health decisions based on this one small contributing factor out of many risk factors, is some scary stuff. Without any testing, you already know that your dane has a 20% chance for bloat! That is a considerable risk without adding a genetic component. Do as you wish, but I hope others think this through before deciding how to proceed (with or without a pexy) based on ALL the contributing factors and what is good for their individual dog - just like you. You can do everything under the sun to mitigate the possibility and in the end, what happens will happen to ALL danes. You just have to decide what is best for your own dog and what risks you want to take. I just hope others don't use this genetic test as the final say on their danes potential to bloat. That would be a grave mistake.
                      Last edited by Angel7292; 10-03-2016, 04:27 PM.
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by oceanbluedanes View Post
                        Oy... be careful. This is very slippery.

                        GDV is most likely a multi-factorial issue. Which means there are many factors involved here. Environment, diet, genetics, exercise etc. Suppose the genetic component accounts for 50% of its occurrence (that is just a random number that I pulled out of thin air). Then of that 50%, we have identified a whopping 3 alleles found by screening genes that are known for contributing to gastric issues like IBD. There are potentially MANY other alleles that contribute to the genetic component of bloat, perhaps both linked to these discovered alleles and perhaps not, or both.

                        Master's degree in Genetics speaking here, but I would be VERY wary of deciding to decline a gastropexy on a Great Dane based on the results of this test. Very. Very. Wary.
                        I'm very warying of pexying either of my Danes, honestly. This test would maybe convince me to reassess and risk a 100% elective procedure if one of my dogs tested with a strong genetic predisposition.

                        Originally posted by Angel7292 View Post
                        You are going to do exactly what I said I worried people would do. You are looking for this test to predict possible future health issues. It can't do it. You are assigning more importance to this test then there is. The potential for bloat has MANY risk factors and genetics is one small bit of it. ANY dane can bloat, genetic or not.

                        You are most welcome to make any choice you feel you need to for YOUR dog. But as you often say, I'm going to put it out there for those that read this thread later.

                        A 20% risk in our breed for GDV is exceptionally high. That is 1 in 5 danes! Since bloat can happen in ANY dane - with or without a genetic predisposition - you should ALWAYS think your dane is at risk for bloating. Others using temperament only as a deciding factor as well, is just crazy. I have the most laid back dane ever (ask anyone that has met him!) and he has bloated several times. There are so many risk factors that have been identified, you are looking at 2 out of a list of 20. BTW, I have identified a specific food that will bloat my dog. A single food ... not all brands either.. a single food from a single brand and I can make my dog bloat.

                        People make grand mistakes thinking they have this licked. You think you have a dog from a line with no KNOWN bloat.. so what. No breeder knows what happened to every dog in their line. Means nothing. Look at the bloat forum here on DOL, you'll see laid back temperament has often been a description of many danes that have bloated. Food plays an issue, environment, stress levels, illness, food quality, exercise, bowl height, so on and so on. Every dane should be cared for that they have the potential to bloat. With or without the genetic testing. Danes with no genetic predisposition has just as much chance of bloating as those that do (see Shamu below).

                        A gastropexy is also only a small tool in the fight against GVD. A pexy will NOT prevent bloat. It only buys you a small amount of time and hopefully prevent the torsion of the stomach - the most fatal part. Otherwise, bloat can still happen in a dog with a pexy and it IS still a medical emergency!

                        Obviously making whatever decision is right for your dog, is up to you. However, this genetic test is only a tool that will end up being most helpful to breeders. As a pet owner, making future health decisions based on this one small contributing factor out of many risk factors, is some scary stuff. Without any testing, you already know that your dane has a 20% chance for bloat! That is a considerable risk without adding a genetic component. Do as you wish, but I hope others think this through before deciding how to proceed (with or without a pexy) based on ALL the contributing factors and what is good for their individual dog - just like you. You can do everything under the sun to mitigate the possibility and in the end, what happens will happen to ALL danes. You just have to decide what is best for your own dog and what risks you want to take. I just hope others don't use this genetic test as the final say on their danes potential to bloat. That would be a grave mistake.
                        The first bolded comment makes no sense. Since bloat has genetic ties, that inherently means that dogs with a genetic predisposition are more likely to bloat than dogs who don't. That's the whole point of identifying if something is genetic or not - whether or not the gene(s) increase/s risk. It's been proven that dogs with direct ancestors who have bloated have an increased risk of bloat.

                        Second bolded comment - I see no difference in using this test to determine whether to pexy my dogs on a personal level and breeders using this test to know the results for their own dogs and for their breeding future.

                        It's a small part of the picture of overall total risk. Just like with a pexy, no one should ever take it as a guarantee. I view a pexy surgery on a dog with anesthesia sensitivity more of a risk than bloat. But that assessment could change if suddenly this test determined Titan had a genetically high risk with these particular alleles taken into consideration.

                        I am in the very small percentage of people who would be putting their dogs under solely for a pexy. Most people do it when they s/n, and I think that's a great time. So my decision should absolutely not effect the decisions of other people reading this. I'm in the tiny minority of people who view neutering as an unnecessary, unhealthy and invasive procedure.

                        To add: In other words, anyone who thinks "I was going to pexy but this test says my dog will be fine" is being really mislead and making an unwise decision.

                        I'm on the other side of the fence. I'm not planning on pexying either dog, but this test and the results may make me rethink and reassess that choice. There's a really big difference between those two situations.
                        Last edited by Hiraeth; 10-03-2016, 12:55 PM.
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Hiraeth View Post
                          I'm very warying of pexying either of my Danes, honestly. This test would maybe convince me to reassess and risk a 100% elective procedure if one of my dogs tested with a strong genetic predisposition.

                          The first bolded comment makes no sense. Since bloat has genetic ties, that inherently means that dogs with a genetic predisposition are more likely to bloat than dogs who don't. That's the whole point of identifying if something is genetic or not - whether or not the gene(s) increase/s risk. It's been proven that dogs with direct ancestors who have bloated have an increased risk of bloat.

                          Second bolded comment - I see no difference in using this test to determine whether to pexy my dogs on a personal level and breeders using this test to know the results for their own dogs and for their breeding future.

                          It's a small part of the picture of overall total risk. Just like with a pexy, no one should ever take it as a guarantee. I view a pexy surgery on a dog with anesthesia sensitivity more of a risk than bloat. But that assessment could change if suddenly this test determined Titan had a genetically high risk with these particular alleles taken into consideration.

                          I am in the very small percentage of people who would be putting their dogs under solely for a pexy. Most people do it when they s/n, and I think that's a great time. So my decision should absolutely not effect the decisions of other people reading this. I'm in the tiny minority of people who view neutering as an unnecessary, unhealthy and invasive procedure.
                          In ref to first bolded.... You have no idea how much the genetics are contributing. It could be 50% genetics and 50% bowl height (it's not.. but just random example). It could be 10% genetics but 75% of it is the quality of dog food (again, random example). A dog that has a higher risk factor genetically may never bloat. A calm dog, with no genetic component, that comes from a line of no known bloat, etc etc can bloat randomly for whatever reason the wind blows in that day. You assume that the genetics is the higher risk factor, when actually another factor could be even a higher risk factor then genetics. They have no idea. You are attempting to assign a value to this test that hasn't been figured out yet. You are giving this test too much weight and this test is simply not robust enough to carry that weight.

                          As I've said to you in my previous post, what you decide to do about YOUR dog is YOUR decision. Just like spaying and neutering you are so against, it is an individual dogs health and welfare that has to be considered. There is no black and white. Lots of gray and not everything is right for every dog. Risk vs. Reward. If you want to use these test as an assessment to determine the risk of potentially putting under your anesthesia sensitive dog, then do so. Obviously, when making any decision for a pexy, spay, neuter or other elective procedure, the health of that specific dog needs to be considered.

                          The only reason I'm even responding is that for most owners that will come and read this thread. Using this test as any type of indicator how to deal with the potential for bloat, has little to no value for most pet owners. An overall 20% risk is an extremely high risk for a potentially fatal condition and ALL owners should decide how to care for, attempt to prevent and treat for their own dog. What you do for your dog is your business. Just make sure we are being very clear that this test doesn't hold the value that YOU may be assigning it and they should consider ALL risk factors when deciding to pexy or not.
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Hiraeth View Post
                            To add: In other words, anyone who thinks "I was going to pexy but this test says my dog will be fine" is being really mislead and making an unwise decision.

                            I'm on the other side of the fence. I'm not planning on pexying either dog, but this test and the results may make me rethink and reassess that choice. There's a really big difference between those two situations.
                            Just saw this:

                            I would agree with this and that is why I posted originally. As I said initially, I worry a great deal that people will view this test as some holy grail result that their dog won't bloat. In most instances, this test has little to no value to most pet owner. I stand by my original post.

                            Ok, so your dog has a genetic component, that doesn't mean it will ever bloat. Your dog has no genetic predisposition and can bloat over and over. There were dogs in this study that bloated and torsioned repeatedly and had no risk alleles (Jennifer the geneticist.. thank you again for all the info!) . That simply shows that many other contributing factors can be at play.

                            My point has been and will always will be is that 1 in 5 danes have a risk of bloating and you should NEVER trust one specific risk factor.. ever. Ruling out the potential using this test, I fear will give people a false peace of mind. I just worry greatly that people will latch on to this test and give it way more weight then should be given. This test does NOT change how you should care for your dane and the risks of a potentially fatal condition. How many times have people posted on this forum that since their dog is laid back, they won't do a gastropexy? Or their dane has no known bloat in the line and that is what they are basing their decision on? I fear that people will see this test as the end-all and be-all. It clearly needs to be said... IT'S NOT! If someone decides against doing a pexy for whatever reason... dandy! I just hope they have all the knowledge and are making an informed decision. I just want them to make an INFORMED decision and not just the results of this test.
                            Last edited by Angel7292; 10-03-2016, 01:58 PM.
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                            • #15
                              Just to throw in another opinion on the situation:

                              I might at some point do the test for my two just out of curiosity, but Ferg is already pexied, and Shark's time is rapidly approaching (and would already be done if I could have arranged it). As far as I know, there are no dogs who have bloated in Ferg's immediate family history, and there are a couple in Shark's line who have. Either way, I'd not be trusting enough of a brand new test/study to forego a pexy.
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                              Fergus
                              SC Dinnie Stone Guardian, CGC
                              Eisen Shark
                              C Shadows On The Sun, CGC

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