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  • #31
    RE: Bloat Checklist-References and Information

    One of my danes bloated last November. i had the dogs' food stored in Rubbermaid containers in the kitchen, and never had a problem, until that day. i fed them their usual dinner, and went to dinner with a friend. When i returned a half hour later, i found the food bin open (turned over sideways and lid off) and it looked like a lot of food had been eaten. All the danes seemed fine as far as i could tell at that point. i got the food cleaned up and sat down, and Shamrock acted like he needed to vomit. (He's a dog who has occasionally vomited for no apparent reason, which got much better when we switched to Innova but is still an occasional problem, so this wasn't immediately frightening for me.) i kind of pushed him into the kitchen so he'd go on the linoleum, and then he seemed fine. Then when he seemed to need to vomit again, i took him outside. i checked on him again about a minute later, when he'd had time to vomit, and he wouldn't come inside. He was standing by the side of the house sort of hunched over. His belly never got distended, but i did feel it and it was taut. i knew immediately what was wrong, because of the hardness of his stomach being a typical sign of bloat, so i had my friend call the emergency vet on the cell phone while i got my bloat kit and tried to pass a tube to his stomach. Didn't work, so we jumped in the car and ran to the E-vet right away. Between this point he started trying to vomit and only getting out this white frothy stuff. At the vet, he continued to do the not vomit thing. The E-vet was really really slow to react, and it really pissed me off to be honest. When we got to the vet, his gums were still normal pink and the right slickness (i.e. no sign of shock yet). It took what felt like FOREVER (probably 20 minutes) to get him under the X-ray machine, and then another three FOREVERS (probably almost an hour) before they actually did anything. i kept asking them why they weren't tubing my dog, or operating on him, or SOMETHING. Finally when his gums did get bright pink i started to have a hissy fit talking loudly about how i'm standing here watching my dog DIE (i had been trying to remain calm because it's important to keep a bloating dog calm), and they finally got the vet to come out and talk to me. Surgery was initiated quickly at that point, and he did survive and come through it fine. He made his 9th birthday and will be 9 1/2 in another 10 days. Anyway, i'm not sure someone not so well versed in bloat would have recognized the early warning signs, and if they took him to the vet an hour later and the vet was still that slow to act, then maybe he wouldn't have made it. Luckily none of the tissue had started to die out yet, but that might not have been the case for someone who just thought their dog was vomiting.

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    • #32
      RE: Bloat Checklist-References and Information

      Hi!
      Can someone please pleeeeeeeeze advise.
      Last night I got the fright of my life, my five year old boy seemed to have some of the symptoms of bloat. Having lost three danes to this dreadful thing in the past 20 years maybe I'm just paranoid but it really scared the daylights out of me.
      He had the runs (VERY watery!) in the afternoon, and by evening he was aggitated and restless (he's normally a floor mat!), drinking excessively, panting, swallowing a lot, licking his lips, eyes were HUGE. I gave him some charcoal tablets and eventually persuaded him to lie down beside me and just cuddled him and prayed til he fell asleep about an hour later. Today he is fine, like it never happened. OK it HAD been hot but he's adjusted to the heat and never goes out until it's cool.
      My problem is I live on a tiny island and the "emergency" vet service is a bad joke x(
      The calls are handled by a call centre and might or might not get there!! I've tried to find a vet who WILL come out in an emergency, but so far havent found one.
      Is there something I could do to buy valuable minutes should the same thing happen again and I have to wait for a vet? I feel soooooo helpless. He's busy lying in front of the tv and my head's been full of "what if's" and panic!!
      Incidentally, my younger dane (who's normally a hooligan and beats him up) just followed him round, sniffing his face and looking concerned, which worried me even more!!
      Please can someone offer some sort of advice??? I know you all come to the rescue when help and advice is needed :e) :e)
      many thanks
      Gabi's mum

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      • #33
        RE: Bloat Checklist-References and Information


        Bloat is a very scary thing and I don't care to ever see it again as long as I live.

        Have you thought of a tacking?? Gastroplexy it's called. Check the archives here on this procedure. It does NOT prevent bloat but done correctly will prevent the torsion.

        Dee
        sigpic

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        • #34
          RE: Bloat Checklist-References and Information

          Do you have a bloat kit?

          Michele
          sigpic
          www.rescuemetugz.com

          Michele, Roscoe, Ava, Romeo, (RIP Daphne)
          http://www.onetruemedia.com/shared?p=732e92418610139ae96918&skin_id=701&utm_so urce=otm&utm_medium=text_url
          Be part of the solution by not being part of the problem. NO BYB's!!

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          • #35
            RE: Bloat Checklist-References and Information

            Also, that is a lot of Danes to lose from bloat. No offense, but are you aware of exercise and food/water before and after feedings?
            sigpic
            www.rescuemetugz.com

            Michele, Roscoe, Ava, Romeo, (RIP Daphne)
            http://www.onetruemedia.com/shared?p=732e92418610139ae96918&skin_id=701&utm_so urce=otm&utm_medium=text_url
            Be part of the solution by not being part of the problem. NO BYB's!!

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            • #36
              RE: Bloat Checklist-References and Information

              I don't think 3 in 20 years is all that many, especially if the poster has had more than one dane at a time. I believe the statistic is nearly 50% of danes will bloat once in their lifetime. So if she has had 6 danes in 20 years, that would make sense.

              Sorry I don't have any information to help you about saving time in case of bloat

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              • #37
                RE: Bloat Checklist-References and Information

                Do you have Phasyme or another gas relief pill to give in those cases? I know many keep these on hand to give some extra time.

                There are also bloat kits that include tubing to help release the gas - in an experienced hand this can even at times untwist the stomach - and in a severe emergency could be used to release the gas by going directly to the stomach (yes cutting through the side into the stomach). This is not something I would normally recommend to anyone unless in a situation where vet help is not close enough to get to in time. If this is something you want to consider, you can google to find a bloat kit, or your vet should be able to help you put together, and your vet absolutely should go over with you when to use it and how.

                What are you feeding? Do you feel that this dog or prior cases have been picky eaters? Do you give raw fat supplements for Omega-3's and 6's, any joint supplements?

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                • #38
                  RE: Bloat Checklist-References and Information

                  Thanks a lot for all help and advice, I'm still picking my way through vets in the hope ONE will answer in an emergency!!
                  I'll try and source bloat kit and ask the chemist about the Phasyme or similar.
                  No, the boy's not a picky eater, nor a gulper - in fact I say he eats with a fork, knife and napkin :* And I'm really strict about resting long before and after meals, feeding from a height, and twice a day, etc. It's a mystery.
                  Yep, normally have two or three danes at a time, sometimes more - all the more to cuddle!!
                  My first bloat was a dane being treated for CDRM so he WAS stressed, my second was his Best Buddy, who never got over losing his pal (even though I had other danes), and bloated EXACTLY one year and a week after the first. My third was a 7 year old who was a bit excitable, but again no indication or warning - just BLOAT.
                  No, this boy's not on supplements, do you think he should be, and what do you suggest?
                  Thanks again for taking the time to help - really do appreciate it.:e) :e)
                  Gabi's Mum

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                  • #39
                    RE: Bloat Checklist-References and Information

                    What a horrible thing to have to go through all that. I have been through bloat once, but my girl survived and lived a long full life after. Still, it was terrible.

                    Unfortunately why dogs bloat is not well-understood. Really there are mostly theories than anything else.

                    I have heard a theory about the loss of elasticity in the stomach and the ligaments holding it in place as a factor in bloat. Essential fatty acids (Omega 3s and 6s) would play a role in this as well as joint supplements for ligaments. My dogs eat raw and especially get things like trachea as sources for the building blocks of the ligaments. There are some excellent joint supplements out there.

                    I also have to say that personally -- and I am not looking to start a debate here -- I think kibble is a factor. Whether it is the swelling of the kibble, gases from added vitamin c in the kibble or what, I do not know. I do not know any raw or home cooked fed dog that has bloated and I know of many cases where changing from kibble to a real food diet - including my dog who lived another 10+ years bloat-free - kept a dog who bloated from doing so again. As an alternative to changing the diet, you could look into adding some brown rice or sweet potato to the meals, as well as goodies like sardines, organs etc on top. The first two grains are nutritious and very soothing, but I would add some more meats to the diet so you aren't turning kibble into an even less meaty meal than it is.

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                    • #40
                      RE: Bloat Checklist-References and Information


                      Altho I respect your opinions..those thoughts have been around a long time. Along with all the rants about elevating feeding dishes and exercise before and after feeding. Hashed and rehashed.

                      From a person who has lived thru many. many cases of bloat in my own and other dogs of different breeds...I will go to my grave believing the primary cause could be eliminated by NOT breeding any dog who has bloated nor breeding any offspring or "first degree" relative.

                      I remember the days when Danes bloated 30 or more years ago and the memorial ads for these dogs also carried the message..."But not to worry because he/she leaves behind many offspring to carry on."
                      And so they did, carried on to produce more Danes that bloated.

                      I also was guilty at one time.. not realizing or giving thought that there may be a connection among related dogs. Somewhere along the line other people may have gave pause also, because it has been years since Bloat has been mentioned in any ads and now is passed off as another cause of a dog's passing.

                      Dee
                      sigpic

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                      • #41
                        RE: Bloat Checklist-References and Information

                        Yep, agree entirely about kibble and about bloat being in lines. With hindsight I came to that conclusion some years ago but was shot down in flames by many "senior" breeders.
                        Anyway the boy is fine, on supplements too as suggested. I've still not been able to find emergency vet but having had a fright am not resting until I do. Many thanks for support and advice!:P :P

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                        • #42
                          RE: Bloat Checklist-References and Information

                          Hello all! It's been qutie awhile since I've posted on this site, so bear with me. I am a Licensed Veterinary Technician at an emergency clinic on Long Island in New York. I have a 6 year old mantle female named Meadow who bloated (with torsion) yesterday afternoon. This was the scariest thing I have been through to date with my girl and she's gone through alot over the years(eye surgery, knee surgery, hip dysplasia, allergies, a torn cruciate ligament and cancer). It just goes to show that even Danes owned by trained professionals such as myself are not safe. Meadow's only saving grace was that I "happened" to bring her to work with me yesterday (remeber that I work in an ER clinic) and we noticed what was happening to her almost immediately. She began gulping the air around her at about 1:30pm so we took her out of her cage to check on her. I took her for a short walk outside where she urinated and had a small bowel movement, but seemed ok. At about 2:00pm she began dry heaving in her cage, we once again removed her from her cage to check her out. She continued to attempt to vomit bringing nothing up but a foamy, stringy, white substance. I immediately alerted my boss, who happens to be the surgeon at the clinic. After quickly examining her we noted that her abdomen was extremly distended. By 2:15pm she was getting x-rayed which confirmed that she had bloated and her stomach was indeed twisted. Meadow was in surgery by 3pm, all fixed and in recovery by 4:30pm. We have no idea why this happened to her, there was nothing I could have done differently. I hope never to have to go through this again. I guess what I'm trying to say is that time is working against you when your baby is bloating. The quicker you get them to the ER the better, you CANNOT cure bloat at home. There is too high a chance that they may be twisted as well, and that in itself is a virtual death sentence. Sorry if I've written a novel here but I felt compelled to share our story with you. Thanks for reading.

                          Meadow's Mommy

                          P.S.- Meadow is resting comfortably as we speak in the ICU and we hope to bring her home tomorrow.

                          The greatest happiness in this world is owning a GREAT DANE

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                          • #43
                            RE: Bloat Checklist-References and Information

                            Dee, are you responding to me? I think you've misunderstood me if so. Although I would never recommend to anyone to just allow their dogs to run wild before and after feedings, I do not feel that really is the cause of bloat, and my dogs do exercise freely before and after eating. I do not encourage it, but if they need to do zoomies, who am I to argue with them about what their body needs?
                            In my experience with bloat and the majority I've heard from others, feeding and water were not implicated in the incident.

                            Stress and genetics IMO are the biggest factors. I only brought up the idea of laxity in tendons (and other ideas) because this specific poster is in a very difficult spot.

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                            • #44
                              RE: Bloat Checklist-References and Information

                              http://www.xceldanes.com/Fireworks.JPG

                              Sorry Ali..didn't see your reply till just now.

                              I also agree about exercise before and after feeding..try to stop, but not the end of the world if they do run around.

                              Also let me clarify my opinion on Bloat.
                              I believe it's an inherited problem that lays dormant till something triggers it. Stress, kenneling a move or a change of household circumstances. Sort of like a bomb..does nothing till lit.

                              Danes are such a sensitive breed and pick up on every nuance in our lives. Which is one reason I love them so much but this can also lead to Bloat.

                              Dee
                              sigpic

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                              • #45
                                RE: Bloat Checklist-References and Information

                                Sad news. Many thanks for all your responses and suggestions to my plea about Bacchus, my five year old boy. Unfortunately at 2.30 this morning he bloated and despite getting the emergency vet, we decided it was so advanced that it was kindest to let him sleep. He had gone into torsion but was still able to wag his tail when I held him in my arms and said my goodnights. He has left a huge hole where my heart was. Many of you will know that feeling.
                                His hooligan young companion senses our grief and is quietly looking for her best buddy. I can't thank you all enough for taking the time and interest to share your experience and knowledge. I can only tell you he was a gentleman, kind and calm. He loved everybody and everything. At least the lady vet was sincerely sympathetic and very gentle with him, for which I will be eternally grateful. His passing was dignified and peaceful, like his life.
                                Give your danes an extra hug and kiss today in memory of Bacchus.
                                Gabis mum

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