Announcement

**Bev_K** · 12-13-2005, 09:23 AM

RE: Great Pyrenese..

My experience is almost completely based on some friends' dogs, which are (basically) all related. It's one of their dogs that went Group 1 at Westminster this past year. They are extremely laid back. Much more independent than Danes. I wouldn't go as far as calling them aloof, but compared to Danes, they are basically at the opposite end of that spectrum. Some are a little reserved with strangers, but none have been aggressive. They shed a LOT.

They drool a little. More mellow than Danes. Not as silly/goofy.

All in all, I really like the breed and have considered them as well. My caution has been they don't seem to be as fond of other dogs as my Danes have been. My friends have had a few girls that would like to kill each other. Course, that can happen in any breed and I don't have enough perspective to know exactly how common it is within this breed.

I think they can bloat, although they aren't as high risk as Danes. I don't know other health issues. They seem to be fairly long lived, although I can't remember off the top of my head the age of most of their seniors.

A little harder to train, IMO. Not as food motivated...well, not very motivated at all.

I'm sure basic manners would be fairly easy to teach, but competition obedience might be a little harder.

Bev

**XcelDanes** · 12-13-2005, 09:28 AM

RE: Great Pyrenese..

My uncle has 3 but they are workers LOL they stay with his show sheep 24/7 They all have been healthy and long lived hes always had 2-3 at all times.He did have probs when they were younger about roaming when he was training them with his older ones.They love all and are so sweet and pretty but alot of hair.When he brushes them in barn like huge balls white fluff everywhere.

http://www.xceldanes.com/Casinoo.jpg

Lisa Mcintosh
www.xceldanes.com

**ruthie_a** · 12-13-2005, 10:07 AM

RE: Great Pyrenese..

My only experience I can share is the shedding and drooling. To be inside, you are gonna have to brush almost daily to keep the hair level down.

But you are right, they are strikingly gorgeous and good dogs.

**Jill** · 12-13-2005, 11:08 AM

RE: Great Pyrenese..

Mitch (mydanebaby) has had Great Pyrs in the past. Perhaps email or pm her.

My friend and neighbor has some on the farm, but Lily stays with the goats. She is very friendly, but I have never introduced her to Jade. The other Pyr they had was very aggressive to humans and other dogs, and they had to get rid of her. I am not suggesting at ALL that these two dogs came from quality breeding.

I did a little research on Pyrs before we decided on a Dane, and the hair and grooming requirement was a big deterrent for me. They are very independent, but can be great family dogs. I have read that they are especially kind to children.

Best of luck in whatever you decide.
Jill

**Jonah** · 12-13-2005, 02:45 PM

RE: Great Pyrenese..

That does sound very interesting. It never even occured to me to look into that breed when I was dane shopping years ago. It really sounds like a breed I'm becoming more impressed with. The shedding I can handle. I've got long haired toys that require me to practically wear a brush on a holster. :7

Of course I've got many years ahead of me and just happened to be thinking about it recently. The first time I ever heard of that breed was ages ago when there was an animated cartoon on television called 'Belle and Sebastian'. I think that was a Great Pyrenese.

I think I'd like that they're a little more independant than a dane as sometimes the danes are like big babies. It's nice to have a co-dependant mush ball, but it does have it's downfalls and inconveniences as well.

I just wanted to make sure this wasn't a breed where you can so easily get a bad one like German Shepherds. They're so widely popular and so intensely bred, your chances of running into a badly bred one are so much greater than a lesser known 'in demand' breed.

Honestly I think that's one thing that's interested me also. The fact it's lesser known, owned, and probably not so overly inbred that you're playing a crap shoot everytime you look for one. That's what attracted me to the danes. I figured a dog that's so hard to keep as a pet anyway, the fewer breeders there would be to mess the breed up. There are still the screw-up breeders out there doing enormous amounts of damage but I still think nowhere near as many as say chihuahuas, or golden retrievers where every Tom, ####, and Harry is raising them. My dane was almost a Borzoi. It was between a dane and a borzoi when I got my dane. I think the reason I still wound up with the dane was because I couldn't find any local Borzoi breeders and within my price range.

I think I like the coat length to on these dogs. Not so thick that they can't be outside in the summer and thick enough that they can go outside in the winter without worrying whether they're too hot or too cold and fighting with them to hurry up and go so YOU don't have to stand outside freezing your bags off. They seem well adjusted to being around a farm type atmosphere also from what I've been reading. That I think I'd also like. One other thing I wanted to ask if anyone knew from experience or a friend of a friend type thing, (I don't care as long as you have some insight) Are they big natural barkers? Or are they average or mostly quiet? That would be an important question for me. I myself can't handle a dog that yaps all day just to hear itself yap. Much less a huge one with a voice louder than mine. lol My neighbors might be interested in knowing about that one to.

**AshieLu** · 12-14-2005, 12:20 PM

RE: Great Pyrenese..

Jonah,

I have a friend that has a few Great Pyrs. They are working dogs. She said that should would never recommend one for being a house dog due to their high work ethics. She said that they are very loving with their family. However, she did say that they are extremely protective of their territory. They are not barkers because that would startle the "herd" or "flock" that they are protecting. Very rarely will they bark. She also said that they do tolerate children but they have to be raised with children. She knows of a couple of breeders in Indiana that you could call with questions or concerns, but they wouldn't sell you a dog if you don't plan on using them for working on a farm. She said the breeders she works with will not sell to people who will keep them locked up in a house. She just kept stressing that these are working dogs, not azy, laid back, couch potatoe dogs. If you have any questions or want the names of the breeders just send me a pm.

Amy

**Jill** · 12-14-2005, 01:32 PM

RE: Great Pyrenese..

Jonah:
Why don't you start here: http://clubs.akc.org/gpca/gpcabreed.html

Jill

**spanaval** · 12-14-2005, 05:23 PM

RE: Great Pyrenese..

> Big, fluffy,
>teddy bear, snow white and from what I gather a herding dog,
>so close to the family in nature like maybe a collie.

Collie? Not at all. They're flock guardians, and not really herding dogs in the traditional sense.

They are pretty independent dogs bred to think and act independently, and have a serious work ethic. Training is pretty much guaranteed to be "interesting", and this is the wrong breed if you're looking for a biddable dog. The ones I've known have all been good with people, but aren't all mushy about it like Danes can be. The owners were uniform in saying that they are suspicious of strangers when they are on their own turf, and what they show towards properly introduced strangers can best be described as tolerance.

Can't remember a whole lot else, other than someone mentioning that it looks like they redid their whole house in snowy down.

Suja

**witzn** · 12-14-2005, 06:25 PM

RE: Great Pyrenese..

I don't think Pyres are much less lacking in bone/substance/size/drool than a Newf or Saint.

Also as a livestock guardian breed, I am not sure they are all that family oriented or wanting to be hugged all the time. The ones I know are independent and have no problem doing their own thing with little human interaction.

Samoyeds and Collies are neither anything like a Pyre in temperament, coat, size, etc and likewise between those two.

Pyres also have a very thick coat, I believe it's a double coat with an insulating layer and then the rough overcoat. I would never imagine comparing the grooming involved in one to any dogs under 80 pounds with coat.

As to breeding risks, I know for some time the breed was challenged with bad temperament and as there are show breeders and working stock breeders, I think it would be very easy to run into a breeder that either had line bred/in bred dogs (just as much as any other breed) but also a risk of buying the wrong sort of dog to make a pet out of (as was posted - livestock guardians are bred to be out working alone).

Sandy

http://homepage.mac.com/witzn/

**Jonah** · 12-15-2005, 05:47 AM

RE: Great Pyrenese..

Hmmm. This is all so interesting. Dfinatley the reason why RESEARCH is so important. Someone ought to refer to this thread when explaining to those out there that reaserch and lots of it is so important in choosing a dog breed. Because I'd seen that link someone posted earlier and that's why i thought I'd run it up the flag pole here. One site said they are barkers and then other sites as well as someone here said they don't bark hardly at all. Then when I've gone to some breeder sites they go on and on about their dogs and the really only honest thing they meantion in the way of why you don't want one of these dogs is the grooming, which anyone who buys a longhared dog should know there is going to be lots of grooming involved anyway. And anyone who doesn't is clearly not smart enough to be considering a dog breed in the first place.

I bet long haired breeders just love it when people ask 'Do they shed alot?'. (No. They keep the same 'Cousin It' coat for the rest of their lives. We bury them in the same fur.) :f

This is why I'd rather have first hand or even second hand opinions on a certain breed because this is what I like to call the meat and pototoes of it all. People who know people who have them or have had them.

I think I will also ask around ALOT of breeders, show, working, and hobby breeders, just what kind of temperments their dogs have. Just so I can get an idea of what the bloodline as a whole has become. Because I would have no problem getting a dog that's HEALTHY from a novice breeder or farmer that has exceptionally gentle dogs rather than getting one from a show breeder that may have aggressive or bad temperments. I think health and teperment means more than anything. I would want it to look like a Great Py, but it doesn't have to be show quality. Just so it looks like it's breed.

The pro-con list is well under way.

PRO

1. They seem to have little in the way of genetic health problems. Genuinely healthy overall

2. They are long-lived

3. Big

4. Solid white

5. Not clingy, and can be left alone without having a complete freak out panic attack---independant

6. Possibly a non-barker ??? The jury's still out.

7. They protect smaller, sickly, or weak animals. I have cats and toy dogs. I would LOVE to have a dog that I could feel confident leaving alone with the little ones knowing he's there to protect them and not be a threat to them. BIGGEST PRO.

CON

1. They can be overly territorial (I don't want a violent dog or one that has an unattractive attitude) I don't mind a good guard dog, but not one that has a bad temper that I can't take to Petsmart with me. I don't want a dog growling at everyone they meet and requiring a muzzle or to be left at home. Afterall I want a pet / companion.

2. Barkers??? Again jury's still out.

3. The shedding. I can handle it but overly shedding huge dogs is a pain...to anyone. Just a little extra time and attention. Though I wonder how these farmers keep their dogs so groomed if they are left alone with the flock all the time. They must be kept pretty ratty looking because they require a lot of constant grooming. Kinda hard to do that when they're not kept with the family.

4. Not very loving. That would be a problem. I don't want a dog that wont love me or like being loved on. It would be just murder to have such a big fuzzy polar bear looking dog and not be able to just get on the floor and wooly him. lol (I wonder if the reason they aren't known for being loveable is because they are mostly used and bred for work and farmers and ranchers aren't going to love on a working animal. So it's just assumed they don't like it because they never get it anyway?)

5. They are hard-headed and are a little harder to train. I need to put into perspective what I would want MINE to do. Shut up when I tell him to. And walk on a leash. Sit, and go lay down. Not to growl or show his @ss at people when we are walking. I'm not interested in much else. I don't need Benji the wonder dog. I don't even need one to walk offleash. As we have a leash law and traffic on the nearby road. I wouldn't trust it offleash anyway. I only have three dogs I can let offleash and everytime a car comes and they are closer to the road than I like my heart jumps into my chest. Accidents can happen but I don't want to challenge one. So they fact they're stubborn is ok unless it's to the point they wont do anything I tell them to or have an attention span like a dalmation.

**spanaval** · 12-15-2005, 09:12 AM

RE: Great Pyrenese..

>3. The shedding. I can handle it but overly shedding huge
>dogs is a pain...to anyone. Just a little extra time and
>attention.

The grooming can be a BIG PITA. Just as a point of reference, to keep Khan's coat looking nice, I have to brush him out about 2-3x a week, an hour at a time. Or do a little bit at a time, daily (he's a GSD/Malamute mix, and weighs around 90 lbs.) I would expect that you'll be doing similar amount of grooming on a Pyr.

>Though I wonder how these farmers keep their dogs
>so groomed if they are left alone with the flock all the time.
> They must be kept pretty ratty looking because they require a
>lot of constant grooming. Kinda hard to do that when they're
>not kept with the family.

I think it was on National Geographic where they showed a bunch of Pyrs guarding sheep up in the mountains somewhere (Dogs with Jobs, most likely). Basically, there were two shepherds (both female), and a pack of Pyrs to look after the sheep. I don't think these dogs were ever brushed, and their coats looked it. The coat kind of looked like smallish dreadlocks. What I remember most vividly is that the dog pack defended the flock against wolves and bears, and the alpha dog died after one encounter.

>4. Not very loving. That would be a problem. I don't want a
>dog that wont love me or like being loved on.

I don't think they're averse to being loved on, just not into active solicitation, and have limits about being cuddled. From what I remember, they are much more loving towards their inner circle than they are to anyone outside it.

>5. They are hard-headed and are a little harder to train.

I don't know what kind of dogs you've had. If you have any experience with Northern breeds at all, you'd get a dose of what this could be like. It essentially means that you've got a highly intelligent dog on your hands who is constantly evaluating what's in it for him. Remember that in their roles as flock guardians, they are expected to think and make decisions for themselves. This carries over, whether they have a job to do or not. Independence and pig headedness are qualities I enjoy in a dog (hence my love of Huskies and Malamutes), but they can be endlessly frustrating to someone who expects compliance all the time.

> So
>they fact they're stubborn is ok unless it's to the point they
>wont do anything I tell them to or have an attention span like
>a dalmation.

Attention span is not at issue. You just need to ask yourself if you're willing to live with a dog who is likely to ask you 'Why?' all the time.

Suja

**Jonah** · 12-15-2005, 01:59 PM

RE: Great Pyrenese..

>
>>3. The shedding. I can handle it but overly shedding huge
>>dogs is a pain...to anyone. Just a little extra time and
>>attention.
>
>The grooming can be a BIG PITA. Just as a point of reference,
>to keep Khan's coat looking nice, I have to brush him out
>about 2-3x a week, an hour at a time. Or do a little bit at a
>time, daily (he's a GSD/Malamute mix, and weighs around 90
>lbs.) I would expect that you'll be doing similar amount of
>grooming on a Pyr.
>
>>Though I wonder how these farmers keep their dogs
>>so groomed if they are left alone with the flock all the
>time.
>> They must be kept pretty ratty looking because they require
>a
>>lot of constant grooming. Kinda hard to do that when
>they're
>>not kept with the family.
>
>I think it was on National Geographic where they showed a
>bunch of Pyrs guarding sheep up in the mountains somewhere
>(Dogs with Jobs, most likely). Basically, there were two
>shepherds (both female), and a pack of Pyrs to look after the
>sheep. I don't think these dogs were ever brushed, and their
>coats looked it. The coat kind of looked like smallish
>dreadlocks. What I remember most vividly is that the dog pack
>defended the flock against wolves and bears, and the alpha dog
>died after one encounter.
>
>>4. Not very loving. That would be a problem. I don't want
>a
>>dog that wont love me or like being loved on.
>
>I don't think they're averse to being loved on, just not into
>active solicitation, and have limits about being cuddled.
>From what I remember, they are much more loving towards their
>inner circle than they are to anyone outside it.
>
>>5. They are hard-headed and are a little harder to train.
>
>I don't know what kind of dogs you've had. If you have any
>experience with Northern breeds at all, you'd get a dose of
>what this could be like. It essentially means that you've got
>a highly intelligent dog on your hands who is constantly
>evaluating what's in it for him. Remember that in their roles
>as flock guardians, they are expected to think and make
>decisions for themselves. This carries over, whether they
>have a job to do or not. Independence and pig headedness are
>qualities I enjoy in a dog (hence my love of Huskies and
>Malamutes), but they can be endlessly frustrating to someone
>who expects compliance all the time.
>
>> So
>>they fact they're stubborn is ok unless it's to the point
>they
>>wont do anything I tell them to or have an attention span
>like
>>a dalmation.
>
>Attention span is not at issue. You just need to ask yourself
>if you're willing to live with a dog who is likely to ask you
>'Why?' all the time.
>
>Suja

I LOVE your responses. lol I've had a german shepherd wolf hybrid, chow chows, dalmations, a great dane and toy breeds. Not at the same time but close. Throughout my life. So i don't think I've gone completely northern breed all the way. I don't mind a dog asking why. I could even handle a dog looking at me and saying 'you go get it.' But a dog that wants to act stupid and destrustive and when I try to get his attention have it either wanna throw a tantrum or tear my arm off, I don't think so.

I'm reminded of that dane pup I had to return to the breeder. I think I'm forever now comparing dogs to him and I don't want one like him. That's what I'm afraid of. Act like a wimp around other big dogs and people and then unruley with smaller animals and around the house and when you finally have to get a leash on him or go catch him out in the yard want to attack you for trying to grab him. Literally rolling over on it's back and kicking you when you're trying to hook up a leash and then when you finally grab the collar start fighting and screaming like you're killing it. Then you try to say NO. or do anything to dicipline it, he takes it as you wanna fight and then starts getting aggressive. That's what I don't want. A dog that acts like a total @$$ho1e. That's what I call short attention span or hard-headed.
If it's independant as in like a chow chow, then that I can handle. But if it's aggressive and one person ownd like a chow chow forget it. I've had chows. I wouldn't recommend ANYONE getting a chow. Shar pei either. I want to make sure a Pyr isn't similar to those breeds in temperment. I wonder if it's much like a saint bernard or newf.
There is another breed that looks very similar to a great pyr. I think it's called a KUVASZ
Here is the westminster site's bio pic on the two breeds. they look nearly identical.

Please do not hotlink images from other peoples sites and do not use other peoples pictures without their permission

Kuvasz

Great Pyrenese

I mean this is wild. Can you tell which breed is which?

**XcelDanes** · 12-15-2005, 02:23 PM

RE: Great Pyrenese..

Wow identical is the Kuvasz heavier bodied? More like Newfie maybe.I cant see much difference in these pics.Beautiful!

http://www.xceldanes.com/Casinoo.jpg

Lisa Mcintosh
www.xceldanes.com

**spanaval** · 12-15-2005, 04:06 PM

RE: Great Pyrenese..

>I LOVE your responses. lol I've had a german shepherd wolf
>hybrid, chow chows, dalmations, a great dane and toy breeds.

Of these, the Chow probably has similar traits, although not exactly the same.

> I could even handle a dog
>looking at me and saying 'you go get it.'

This is what you're more likely to run into.

> That's what I call
>short attention span or hard-headed.

Very different definitions. My version of a hard headed dog is one that fully understands what is expected of it, and decides to extend a certain digit in your direction instead.

>If it's independant as in like a chow chow, then that I can
>handle.

That's more like it, although they are generally a little more people oriented.

>But if it's aggressive and one person ownd like a
>chow chow forget it. I've had chows.

The Chows I've met have been uniformally good dogs. Their sense of humor, I just didn't get, and they were stand-offish, which is okay in my book.

> I want to make sure a
>Pyr isn't similar to those breeds in temperment.

Not at all.

>I wonder if
>it's much like a saint bernard or newf.

Nope. Both those breeds are *much* more handler oriented. Breeds that are developed to work with people generally behave substantially differently from those that were developed to work independently of them.

> There is another breed that looks very similar to a great pyr.
> I think it's called a KUVASZ

Different origins, similar purpose. Although no one knows for sure, there is a theory out there that the Kuvasz is one of the founding breeds for the Great Pyrenees. IIRC, there are substantial temperamental differences (I've only ever met one Kuvasz) - the whole protective/guarding instinct and independence are much more highly developed in the Kuvasz, and I believe that they tend to also be more dog aggressive. From what I've seen, they're both big, white, fluffy dogs, but the faces looked significantly different. I don't know enough about conformation to comment in any kind of a meaningful way.

Suja

Announcement

Great Pyrenese..

Great Pyrenese..

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment