View Full Version : 5 month old great dane has pano in both hind legs
02-17-2010, 12:20 AM
We have our first great dane puppy, he is five months old and after every kind of test our vet told us he has pano. He has had 3 bouts of it now. It last 3 to 4 days to where we have to pick him up to take him outside to use the bathroom. He is unable to walk. our vet told us to change his food to a holistic food. I need help on what I need to get him. Our vet said he will outgrow this condition, but we need help now. Any advice would be welcomed. Thank you.
02-17-2010, 05:30 AM
What brand/kind of food are you feeding? If your vet recommended some sort of holistic food, Eagle Pack has some good holistic dog food. Pano from what I've read is usually self-limiting, so if you do make a switch to a good quality kibble/food then that should help.
02-17-2010, 06:51 AM
That sounds more like HOD?
Are the joints swollen? Is he running a temperature?
02-17-2010, 07:55 AM
He does run a fever but his joints are not swollen. He is on Eukanuba for large breed dogs. Thats what the breeder had him on. This is our first Great Dane so I am at a loss on what to do for him.
02-17-2010, 08:42 AM
What is the protein level of Eukanuba Large breed?
02-17-2010, 08:46 AM
Just did a quick Google search and the Eukanuba Large Breed Adult appears to be 23% and the Eukanuba Large Breed Puppy is 26%. Not sure which one the OP is feeding.
How much is he eating at 5mos?
Can you post pics of him standing (front profile and side profile), even if there is no apparent swelling of the joints?
02-17-2010, 08:49 AM
This is too high for a Great Dane - Try Innova That is a good Holistic Food
Nutrient(percent)Crude Protein not less than26.0 % Crude Fat not less than14.0 % Crude Fiber not more than5.0 % Moisture not more than10.0 % Calcium not less than0.80 % Phosphorous not less than0.67 % Vitamin E not less than140 IU/kg Omega-6 Fatty Acids not less than2.40 %* Omega-3 Fatty Acids not less than0.30 %* Glucosamine not less than375 ppm* Chondroiton Sulfate not less than35 ppm*
02-17-2010, 08:54 AM
Another good one is Natural Balance - I have been using this with Mona and she looks great I use Duck and Potato Formula
Crude protein (min.) 21%, crude fat (min.) 10%, crude fiber (max.) 3%, moisture (max.) 10%, calcium (min.) 1%, phosphorus ( min.) 0.9%, omega 3 fatty acids* (min.) 0.5%, omega 6 fatty acids* (min.) 3%
02-17-2010, 09:11 AM
Thank you sooo much for your advice, he is on the adult formula and eating 2 and one half cups two times aday. Is this too much? He doesn't look overweight, you can still kinda see his ribs. I will take some pics of him this afternoon when my boys get home. He doesn't want to sit up by himself. Although he could. I carry him outside and sit him down he will walk back to the door, he is just hunched over and walks real slow. And this is after he wines and waits for me to come pick him back up. Thanks again. I am going to get him some food this morning.
02-17-2010, 09:23 AM
It does not sound that you are overfeeding him at all. There are a lot of theories surrounding Pano and why it happens, but the underlying fact is no one knows exactly. It is not your fault or anything that you did to cause this problem with your puppy.
It is not necessarily nutritional and many do believe it is a genetic issue that can be passed down in certain lines of dogs. With that said I would not continue to feed Eukanuba and would look for a better quality food that is appropriate for a growing giant breed puppy. Despite all of Eukanuba's advertising and catch phrases they actually manufacture a very low quality food and charge you a high quality price.
Currently, a common rumor is that low protein, low calcium diets may prevent this condition. It should be noted that the energy level of low protein/calcium diets is often lower as well. If this is the case, a puppy will eat much more of the diet in order to meet its energy needs, resulting in higher total calcium consumption. It may be preferable to feed a puppy diet and restrict total quantity to keep the dog lean than to use a low protein/low calcium adult dog food. http://www.vetinfo.com/dencyclopedia/depano.html
What everyone does seem to agree on is to limit movement and allow rest. Your dog will see the other side of this and it will go away in time. I know it is horrible to see your dog in so much pain and not be able to do anything to help him. I would contact your breeder and inquire if they have seen signs of this in their lines, but I am not sure you will get a straight answer. You will at least be letting them know that you have had an issue with it and it is something they can take into account.
02-17-2010, 10:10 AM
My vet told me the same thing about contacting my breeder. I did and was shocked at what I was told. She said that none of her puppies had ever had any problems and she only.breeds high quality dogs. But she would give me another puppy if I had conrad put down to keep from spending anymore money on him. I could never do that, I have only had him for 5 weeks but he is part of our family and I would do anything to make him better no matter what it cost.
02-17-2010, 10:16 AM
Absolutely no reason to discuss putting him down! Once you figure out exactly what's going on, you can fix it from there. If it is pano or HOD they will usually go away by themselves with proper nutrition and rest.
Diamond T Farm
02-17-2010, 10:25 AM
I battled Pano with Deacon.
He had one bout with Pano so bad that I went tearing him to the vets office and begged and pleaded with them to see him. They did. We got no sleep the night before. He screamed in pain all night long every single time he moved. The next morning he could hardly walk. It was in his front leg and his back leg at the same time. I didnt have to carry him thankfully because he was over a hundred pounds by then.
It was Pano definately. My vet checked every joint in him. Then he held him very still and pressed the long bones in his legs. Immediate reaction. After virtually no reaction from moving all his joints.
He gave me a pain pill (for the life of me I cant remember what it was, it wasnt Rimadryl). Then I also made sure he wasnt chilled when sleeping. Like sleeping on just a fleece dog bed in the floor with our hardwoods I think was too chilly. And he wont stay covered. Stuff like that. I did change his food so he wasnt growing so fast. The vet recommended makeing sure he stays lean.
Fortunately, panosteitis ("pano") is self-limiting and doesn't result in permanent problems. It is painful, though, and some dogs do need an anti-inflammatory short term to help them through this. Other dogs get through it just with rest and TLC (tender lovin' care).
Btw, high protein levels in foods is not, by itself, a cause of pano (or HOD), but the energy content of foods (kcal/cup) does seem to play a role. Higher-energy foods can still be fed, but in limited quantities. Calcium level and the calcium:phosphorus ratio is very important, too. So, feeding a good quality kibble and keeping the pup on the lean side and exercised appropriately (not too much, not too little) are very important.
My 1st border collie had pano at age 9 months in his thigh bones. He was *very* sore and it really rained on his "high activity/always moving" parade. I treated him with Metacam, rest, and time. He was better after a couple of weeks, and fine the next month.
02-17-2010, 12:46 PM
Pano *normally* doesnt have a fever with it.........this sounds more like HOD. It could be a really extreme case of pano, but Wow, thats a over the top for pano. And he is at the age for HOD.
I would definitely drop his food to something that is 21% (California Natural comes to mind), give him the Raw Apple Cider Tonic, and get some Rimadyl from the vet to help with the inflammation and pain.
Pictures would help too!
Im so sorry your breeder gave you such "wonderful" help and I hope your boy is feeling better soon!
02-17-2010, 02:00 PM
Okay, where we live I was unable to find any good food so my vet just gave me some of his eagle pack, I am going to order some online. He also told me to get him Vitamin E and Flex-a-min with msm, he also gave me Metacam for pain. Does this all sound okay to you. I am having to learn all of this as I go, I have 4 other dogs, all rescue and have never had anything like this before. My other babies are,14 yr old collie mix, 12 yr old shepard mix, 3 yr old heinz 57,1 yr old,beagle, pom mix. Also what is HOD, after looking at Conrad this morning it seems his front joints might be a little bigger then they were. I will take pics this evening and post them for you to see. Thanks again for all your help.
02-17-2010, 02:01 PM
what is raw apple cider tonic
02-17-2010, 02:06 PM
HOD = hypertrophic osteodystrophy.
You've never seen it before because it is only seen in giant/large breed dogs. Its a disease that involves rapid growth.
If you're going to order online I would order California Natural or another quality brand food that is 21% protein.
Eagle Pack Giant/Large Breed puppy food is excellent for healthy Dane babies, but it is 23% protein. A pup in the middle of a severe growth issue shouldnt be given anything more then 21% protein.
Metacam is a NSAID just like Rimadyl, so that is good he will be on that. Metacam will help reduce the inflamation and give him some relief from the pain.
02-17-2010, 02:10 PM
You buy Raw Apple Cider vinigar at the health food store, take equal portions (1 cup each) of RACV and Honey, warm in the microwave to mix, leave on the counter and give 3 TB over his food twice a day.
02-18-2010, 09:44 PM
Not trying to jack your thread buy my question is somewhat on the same topic...
My puppy's front legs turn outward when she stops walking - not real bad, but definitely noticable. Her right is worse than her left. It looks like they're straight when she walks though. It's just every time she stops. Her feet are also not very tight and kind of splay out. I don't know all of the technical terms for this. She's 4 months old and I just got her about a week ago. She just started on RAW, not sure what she was eating before.
Anyone know if this is anything serious and what is usually done to correct it, if necessary? Do they grow out of it?
02-19-2010, 09:19 PM
I just wanted to thank everyone for their help with Conrad, I took him to the vet yesterday afternoon, he had a fever of 103.8. I asked the vet about HOD, he wasn't real familier with it. He agreed that his front joints were larger than they were the day before. He gave him a shot for the fever and put him on clindamycin 150mg twice a day and zeniquin 50 mg once a day. Plus the metcam for pain. Well long story short, he got to pulling the cover off the bed this morning to wake me up. That was a surprise after having to carry him out to potty for the last 3 days. All day he has gotten stronger and more playful. I ordered california natural food and had it overnighted. We should get it tomorrow. His joints seem to be getting smaller also. and no fever today. If this is HOD does it go away or will it come back? This has been our 3rd bout with this stuff in the 5 weeks that we have had him. Thanks again for all your input.
02-20-2010, 05:38 AM
It can come and go, but your chances of seeing it less increase with what you are doing proactively (changing his food to Calif Nat and give the tonic mix).
Im glad to hear he is feeling better! Did you give your vet the clinic name for HOD? I sure home he takes the time to read up on it so he will recognize it should he ever see another case again.
This disease commonly gets missdiagnosed because most vets just dont see many Dane pups, let alone one with this problem.
I hope he continues to improve!
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